Thin Plate Pure Lead battery

[ebb]

here is an article by Nigel Calder, who is without a doubt the best writer on yacht systems alive on the planet, has written this intro on the newest AGM technology from the original developer of absorbed glass mat batteries.
Odyssey. The 4 page piece is titled 'Charging Into the Future.'

google> Charging into the Future
sailmagazine.com/boatworks/.../charging_into_the_future/ -
http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:pi2jKk8wIyEJ:sailmagazine....
[Did not type in what reproduces here in blue...]


These essentially drycell batteries sound fabulous.
A Group 31 (75#) will set you back a paltry $300. BUT........

[c_amos]

Is THIS the link>? (http://sailmagazine.com/boatworks/engines-and-systems/charging_into_the_future/)

Charging Into the Future (http://sailmagazine.com/boatworks/engines-and-systems/charging_into_the_future/)

By Nigel Calder Posted August 22, 2008 (http://sailmagazine.com/boatworks/engines-and-systems/charging_into_the_future/)




...According to EnerSys, these batteries can be 100 percent recharged from a fully discharged state in just 30 minutes. ...Wow! That is really impressive.

[ebb]

all depends on your charging system.

hamster in a cage probably isn't 'high rate' enough,

but maybe a recycled exercise bike as a cockpit generator....

[Commander 147]

I read it back then and started checking out the Odessey batteries because I knew I wanted an electric inboard for Destiny. The PC1800 will give me 215 Amp HR of power and they will weigh 526 lbs. which is very close to the 500 lb added weight in the keel of the commander. So when I pull the extra lead pig out I will be back to almost the same weight. They will cost me $2356.00 plus tax and last 7 to 10 years. If something goes wrong in the first 4 years I get a new battery for free with no prorating. And I can actually drain them dead and not seriously harm the battery. They are a good deal IMHO.

[ebb]

That weight seems amazingly light for your electric motor ap!
PC-1800-FT are nearly two feet long and weigh in at 132# each, and are configured differently from 'normal' battery sizes. But what's normal seems to be changing.

For the rest of us:
In Odyssey's marine spec list only two battery cases are familiar:
34M-PC1500 (so called trolling bat) 10.85L-6.76W-7.82H. And the
31M-PC2150 - 13L-6.80W-9.47H (which I believe to be a Group 31 size)

(Just thinking that a $300 battery won't always be affordable for Little Gull, so common size is important.)


I'm permanently challenged electrically and will have to find somebody to design my system.
I would like to be able to charge the bats using thin film solar panels. Have no idea whether I'm limited to trickle charging and will have to carry a Honda generator (have no room or desire - altho gasoline is my fuel - dammit). The alternator on the Yamaha is too small to be of much use and running an OB in the middle of nowhere to charge bats is nuts.

Plan on having a couple greedy appliances aboard, so recharging efficiently is necessary for me.

Any ideas where to look......?:confused:

[Commander 147]

http://svhotwire.com/index.php

The guy that owns the place is a sailor that spent a long time cruising. I think he still lives on his boat but has a storefront in Tarpon Springs near the sponge docks. I've talked to him several times and he seems knowledgeable.

[ebb]

Nice tip, Commander - may do just that, CALL.
John Gambill has a most impressive resume, which can be found on the site.


Ran into Easy Ac/Dc whose Owner is Kevin. He runs Q&A forum where his answers to specific questions are particularly clear.
I thought maybe I'd contact this guy, but while The Ariel/Commander electrical system is usually relatively simple and small, I've created a bit of a monster that needs an electrical Knight with solar qualities.

Main attraction for me was the EZ ACDC QuickConnect Electrical Systems. For what seems to be a decent price you get already complete pre-wired snap together electrical panels. Aimed at the fishing boat crowd there's not much choice but who cares, these panels are compact, pre-tinwired and a real nice mottled RED color! Very different from the usual frufru stuff.

Anyway, take a look.... tell us if they're any good....

[c_amos]

Ebb,

These guys?

http://www.ezacdc.com/Scripts/default.asp

http://www.ezacdc.com/ProdImages/EZP-8HNBDCS.gif

[ebb]

Craig, how you do that?

Yeah,
What do you think?
Start up concept and tooling like this would take some bucks.
Where does this originate from? England, China, Mexico?
And why confined to the bass boat guys?

[c_amos]

I had an old MG, it was a great car. My wife and I used to call it our 'date car'. That was partially because we only used to to go for rides in the country side, it was also partially because you never knew when you were going to 'run out of gas'. :p (or some equilivelent issue that would cause you to end up walking).

The car's design was sound, and the electrical components were mostly reliable.... The problem was the connectors. I ended up rewireing the care stem to stern all to aviation specs. After that, it only stopped when actual components failed (Fuel pump, and coil).

If the connectors are not properly constructed that set up from EX-DC could be a real nightmare.... but if well made it could be just the ticket.

If they are marketing to the bass boat set, it would have to be pretty well waterproof which would be a real asset. Whatever you get I hope it works as well as the original equipment. I am still using the OEM switches and fuses.... even a couple strands of the original wire. On dissection much of the wire I removed was still bright and servicable... not bad for ~ 45 years.

Surely much better then Morris Garages ever hoped for. :D

[ebb]

Great story, good points!
Like you say it's always in the connections.
And we know we must crimp, solder, shrinkwrap and tape every connection to aviation specs (marine plus altitude?)....but there's always the luvly hype and bling to distract.

Used your blueline to get back in looking for some indication that the panel switches were fused OR breaker type. All breakers.
There also seems to be some connection with fishing boat mfrs and Attwood. Money comes from somewhere there.

Talking about electronics somebody was saying that you have 'splash resistant'
'water resistant'
'water proof'
'submersible'
Only submersible is really waterproof these days for handheld GPS and VHS electronics this source said (Practical Sailor evaluation???). All the rest is sales hype.
Or while the instrument may be fairly well protected the battery compartment leaks in tests. Waterproofing inconsistency in the same product. It's doubtful these panels will get compared with other panels on the market - that would be helpful. I don't remember breaker panels ever being compared and evaluated.

These EZACDC wired panels we assume are splash proof, but how well protected are the 'snap together' wire components for instance?
Don't know that these, at least interesting, if not "gorgeous" EZACDC panels and switches are rated but they say the panels are put together with "OEM quality" parts (Marinco is mentioned) and the plastic and rubber is UV protected and meant for some exposure, but just how dependable (read SALTPROOF) noone is letting on. Nav lights are Attwood LEDs with a ten year warranty. No tri-color.

I guess comparisons are made with BlueSea's Weatherdeck Water resistant (30 minute immersion)* switch panels. How's their wire and wiring? It seems to me that you'd be getting better marine quality in 'flydeck' panels. But that may be wishful thinking.
I would still be thinking of putting these in under the bridgedeck in the Ariel. You know: accessible but really not easy to replace.
Oh well....
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________
*just what is 30 minute immersion? What does it mean? If the flybridge was immersed 30 minutes in seawater THAT would mean something. But 30 min immersion means nothing in terms of wire connections. Nothing. It is ENDURANCE that counts.

[c_amos]

In a timely coincidence Rose and I were going for a sail yesterday and I dropped the Tohatsu into the well. I did my pre-start routine and noticed the wires had pulled out of the DC connector. :rolleyes:

I can remember repairing this set up several times. It has been used with the Yamama, the Suzuki, and now with the Tohatsu. It is the same old goofy connector that is sold by most every marine supplier. Sea dog markets one, I believe that Anchor sells the same connector. It is a round plug with 2 brass pins that are sized so it can not be plugged in wrong.

I have tried tinning the wires, wrapping the assembly in good heat shrink, dieelectric grease, even once encased the connector in a waterproof box for a while.

Nothing has worked. Of course it has a hard life with it necessary life in the Lazy-rat.

I have looked at other connectors and found nothing I am happy with. The 'Cigarette lighter' plug (even the good ones) corrode and jar loose. I use one for my anchor light outlet and it is strictly a below decks item IMHO.

There is the plug made for the trolling motors.... the two sides of the plug are something like $50... and it looks like a poorly designed piece IMHO.

OTher then studs and brass thumb screws I am at a loss to figure this one out.

Anyone found a decent DC connector>?

[carl291]

Mike,
A Commander carries 500 lbs of loose ballast? That's is certainly different than the Ariel.

Craig,
How about a connector from a late model car or truck, I don't know the name but they are tinned, have a rubber seal in the coupler housing and readily available at NAPA. GM cars have them as well as class 8 semi trucks.

[Commander 147]

The reason the Commander has more lead than the Ariel is because it also has less cabin and superstructure. The increased amount of lead is to allow for the differant weights in the cabin and engine. The Commander was typically sold as an outboard model. Page 96 of the manual tells you that in the "Ballast" paragraph.

Jerry Carpenter

[ebb]

I would think it'd be the other way round.
Less above sheer weight, less ballast needed.
Less weight above, less weigh below, make boat go faster.

[Commander 147]

Ebb

My guess is that it was more about making the two boats equal for class racing than it was about making the Commander sail better.

[ebb]

Craig, reading your post #12 again...

Maybe getting a 'new' manufacturer's (or anyone's) 'marine' lighter plug and taking a real good look at it would be a good indication of how serious they are about protecting the connectors. Lighter plugs seem particular vulnerable to corrosion. Maybe they've progressed on the problem.

The Seadog connector is a two wire, can-only-be-put-together-one-way plug.
My little gray cells always think there always are better ways, and usually somebody has thought of it. You know, like the Brits or the Danes. 'Course they don't make outboards.
Can you imagine a O-ring protected push and twist together molded gizmo - each side with an attached cap to protect when apart - that would cost too much but would have a decent lifespan - exists somewhere....? Has to.

What do the current Honda and Yamaha have?

[c_amos]

Craig, reading your post #12 again.........Can you imagine a O-ring protected push and twist together molded gizmo - each side with an attached cap to protect when apart - that would cost too much but would have a decent lifespan - exists somewhere....?

Only in my dreams. ;) There is one that is priced like that, but nothing I have seen that lives up to the claim. These Marinco connectors... at $50 a set;

http://images.westmarine.com/full/1422591.jpg



There is a connector that someone posted on SailFar (http://www.powerwerx.com/anderson-powerpoles/powerpole-sets/30-amp-red-black-anderson-powerpole-sets.html) that looks better then what I am using, but I am not too sure. I will probably pick up a couple and post my results.


What do the current Honda and Yamaha have?

Don't know about 2009, but Yamaha did use the small bullet connectors they use on the rest of the motor. Fine for inside the motor, not too well protected though. Honda use(d) a small male/female connector that was much like an automotive trailer light connector. Better, but not something I would choose....

Don't know the answer yet, but I will advise avoiding the use of these silly things;

http://www.reddenmarine.com/site/images/CHRM121BP.jpg

[ebb]

Marinco sure look clunky.
But the set reminds me of my honey crunch and oak flakes:
They got the opened box to tab closed - but the bag of flakes inside has nothing innovative to keep it closed. I have to use a rubber band.

The Marinco is obviously a standard marinized domestic plug. Dumb question: but WHY? Is the OB going to be plugged into a duplex? What do we need those long tines for? Won't shorter ones do? Why do the tines have to do the locking? Why can't the locking be done by the plug housing? Why do tines have to be friction to hold together? Why can't the plug housing twist together to do that? Or snap together.
The trick is to get the protective cap on BOTH sides.

Why do we have to sex electric plugs?

What makes the alternate plugs interesting, is that they LOOK innovative. They also got guys interested enough to talk about them. (80Amps on model airplane plugs???) See the 'reviews'.
But, can't really see them in the lazarette, right?

No answer for this wet problem yet.
Have to wait for someone to think outside the plug.:rolleyes: