Cabin Interior--Slider Doors

[bkeegel2]

Has anyone changed out the slider doors on the sides of the main cabin? My tracks have broken and the doors are not in that great a shape either. I like the slider concept and would like to stick with something similar, but maybe a little more reliable than a plain old plastic track.

Any ideas would be appreciated.

[Mike Goodwin]

I dont have any sliding doors in my boat , #45, where exactly are yours ?
Where you keeping your boat ? I'm down at the bottom end of the James myself.

[bkeegel2]

I'm in Deltaville, about half a mile up the Rappahanok in Broad Creek. I had to cancel a trip that I had planned to go down to Norfolk, but when I reschedule, I'll let you know. Maybe we could get together and compare notes (or boats).

The sliding doors are located behind the berths in the main cabin, along the 'walls' The cabinets that they enclose are about 6" deep and are located about where the back cushion for sitting in the main cabin on the berths would be located. I assumed that these cabinets were standard, but perhaps I'm wrong. My doors for these cabinets are sheets of fiberboard covered with woodtone laminate and the tracks that they ride in are plastic and have cracked and broken away. Let me know what kind of cabinets are in your boat. Maybe these were added to mine before I bought it and I didn't even realize it.

[Bill]

From your descripton, it sounds like some custom work was done on your boat. If you have one, a photo would be nice.

[bkeegel2]

Well from looking at the photos on the Yahoo site I must have a customized set up in the cabin. The shelves behind the quarter berths have been covered with sliding doors that make them "heel proof" and keeps a neat look in the cabin regardless of the mess on the shelves. I will try to get a photo, except I don't have electronic photo capabilities at this point. The only disadvantage is that there is no back cushion on the berth (when used as a setee) and the seating becomes bench style. I guess I will have to check out a cabinet shop to see if I can find a new set of glides for these doors.

I'll let everyone know how it goes and will try to get a photo in the future.

[Mike Goodwin]

Dang, I was just in Mathews today and almost went over to Gwynn's Island .
I think the doors be custom too , but maybe a good idea ?

[Scott Galloway]

I don't have sliding doors, or any doors for that matter on my boat, hull #330, but I do have a slightly sagging beam beneath the mast. The doors were removed by a previous owner.

I am probably going to augument the beam with either stainless steel or aluminum plates on either side, but I was wondering if anyone has tried a different approach. That approach would be to connect the passageway between the main salon and the V berth to an arched doorway. The doorway would be no lower in the center as a result, but the arch would transfer the mast load to the bulkheads on either side of the door.

I have a photo of a Columbia 26 MKI that was similarly modified. It would be an attractive solution to the problem of the sagging beam if it worked.

The deck above the doorway on my boat has been repaired by a previosus owner with epoxy without first taking the sag out of the beam over the doorway, so I am reluctant to jack the beam back into it's original position given what that might do to the now solid epoxy-reinforced deck beneath the mast. The sag is very slight in any case.

[Mike Goodwin]

Looking at that truss from the vee-berth area, it is hard to believe they could sag , but they do .
Could the deck need re-coring in the area of the maststep ? That would account for 3/8" of sag .
How much sag have you got ?
I had thought about a laminated beam , but had no sag , if it ain't broke ............!

[bkeegel2]

The doors that I am talking about are not betwen the cabins, they are in front of the shelves that are along side the main cabin and serve only to hold items on the shelf--like a cabinet. I assumed they were standard equp. but was mistaken. I have found a solution to my problem, I am going to use the type of track that you would use to put a sliding glass door on a trophy cabinet. I'll let folks know how that works out and try to get some pictures so folks will know what I'm talking about.

I do have a solid laminate covered particle board door for the opening in the main bulkhead, but I removed it and have replaced it with a curtain. I don't have any sag, but I am now thinking that the door may have helped support the strongback over the years (before I owned the boat) I may wind up reinforcing the strong back as suggested in the manual, but I have so many other jobs to do and I like Mike's attitude about ain't broke.

[Scott Galloway]

Sorry about being confused. I read that wrong. I was for some reason envisioning the doorway through the main bulkhead. My boat has no cabinets and no sliding doors. In answer to Mike's question about the sag in the strongback over the door in the main bulkhead, the sag on my boat #330 is very slight. The deck has not been recored under the mast, but it was repeartedly drilled and then pumped full of epoxy before the tabernacle was installed. Therefore I am not excited about jacking it back in place. I have been coinsidering various options. So far the idea of installing metal plates to strengthen the strong back, but leaving the slight sag seems the best idea. The second option is leaving it as is.:o

[Mike Goodwin]

Scott,
How much thread is left on your turnbuckles for the shrouds? That is the major factor on when you must jackup the strongback .
Don't put great faith in the drill and squirt deck repair , unless you did it yourself and know the core was dry . It can be a real mess in there .I have cleaned up behind lots of those repairs on dozens of boats and rarely were they done right .

[Scott Galloway]

Mike,

It is not so much a matter of putting faith in a prior owner's repairs as it is a fear of doing some damage now that the original balsa cored deck under the mast is a combination or balsa and epoxy by jacking it up from below. Since the beam over the door in the main bulkhead beneath the mast has only a slight sag, and there is no evidence of real structural damage, I plan on reinforcing that beam so that it will not sag more over time.

As far as my turnbuckles go, the rigging looks good in that regard, and that is not my motivation for reinforcing the strong back.

In fact I have Norseman fittings all around. The only serious problem with the rigging at this point appears to be backstay chainplate, which appears to be original. It is very thin, and has only three bolts. The knee stops short of the bottom side of the deck, leaving a space of about an inch between the top of the knee and the bottom side of the deck, and someone cut the bottom part of the knee off to glass in an enlarged motor well to accomodate a Honda 4 stroke. So the backstay needs some work, and a new chainplate. I want to look at a couple of modifications to backstays on other Ariels before I attempt that one.

[Mike Goodwin]

I am in the process of splitting my backstay .
I have installed heavy stainless plates (2x the original thickness) on the corners , thru bolted , added a glassed in ply backer plate on both sides .
You put a straitedge on the beam and found how much deflection ?

The 'norseman' fittings could be a sign someone has already shortened the rig .

[Scott Galloway]

Mike,

Thanks for the comments.

Regarding Norseman fittings and backstays in answer to your questions:

The Norseman fittings likely went on when the rig was tabernacled. Th original wooden mast step was removed and replaced with a steel tabernacle plate, which is much thinner than the original wood mast step. So the rigging was likely modified at that time. The NOrseman fittings however could have predated that time.

Regarding the backstay, I looked at another Ariel today and it appeared to have a different backstay chainplate than my boat does. I will take a closer look at mine again, but my backstay chainplate appears to be totally straight and has no designed forward bend in it like the other boat that I saw today.

I did not put a straight edge on the top of my stay. I can clearly see that the top inch of the stay has a deflection in it that appears to be a twist. Since a backstay slack adjuster is installed that operates like a corkscrew, and that since adjuster was used every time the mast was lowered and raised, and that had to happen each time the boat was sailed to get it under the bridge to the sea, I can only guess that the twist in the chainplate is the result of fatigue relating to use of the adjuster. So I will need to replace that chainplate in any case, so a double backstay is worth considering while I am at it I suppose. My chainplate has only three bolts connecting it to the knee, but as I said previously the bottom portion of the kneee has been cut off to accomodate an enlarged outboard well.

[Mike Goodwin]

Scott,

You have any photo's of the mast step setup ?
How is the mast held to the step ?
It sounds like just a hinged step as opposed to a true tabernacle , which would pivot the mast a foot or so above the deck .
I'll take some digital shots of my new backstay plates , they were real easy to do .

Mike

[Bill]

Pearson changed the backstay somewhere around #300 + - . Originally, the bs was a straight piece of chrome bronze. The later models were ss and they curved forward just as they ented the deck from below.

[Scott Galloway]

Mike and Bill,

Thanks for the info.

Regarding my tabernacle on Ariel hull #330: It was done the way nearly all sailboats in the upper Santa Cruz harbor are done. I have heard it called a "Santa Cruz Tabernacle, but around here we just refer to it as a tabernacle, and writers like Dan Spurr and Bruce Bingham also refer to this approach a tabernacle.

The mast does pivot about a foot above the main deck, but only because the mast step is on the cabin top, which is about a foot above the main deck. The mast step is generally a metal plate with risers on either side through which a bolt secures the mast. The bolt serves as a pivot point for the mast. The front edge of the mast is rounded, and generally a wooden block cut to the same radius is inserted in the bottom of the mast.
The bolt is run through this wooden block. The pivot plane is on a line parallel with the main deck defined by the line that runs from a shackle at the top of the starboard upper shroud turnbuckle through the mast step to a shackle at the top of the port upper shroud turnbuckle. The shackles on the port and starboard turnbuckle are connected by a Boom guy to the aft end of the boom to stabilize the boom as the axis of an Isosceles triangle defined by the three points to which the boom guy is attached. On my boat, the designer also decided to run the boom guys through blocks at either upper shroud attachment point and back to cleats on either side of the cockpit. This is a bit unconventional from other tabernacled boats I have seen locally.

Some boats also include a bridle which runs from the upper shroud pivot points to the bases of both lower shrouds. This bridle may, like the boom guy, be temporary, or it may be a permanent installation. I had my last boat tabernacled professionally, and no such bridle was included. My tabernacle worked very nicely without a bridle.

As far as the backstay chainplate on hull #330, the knee appears to have a cant to starboard (as installed). The chainplate bends sharply to starboard at the top of the topmost bolt, which seems dangerous to me, and the very top inch or so of the chain plate is twisted, probably as result of heavy use of the stay-tensioning device. The chainplate may have a slight curve forward by design, but the twist is due to cumulative strain, and I am not sure about the bend to starboard.

Sorry but this is a new boat for me, and as yet I have no photos. I will however and will be posting them to my Ariel page in time. I wanted to photograph solutions and not problems, however a picture really is worth a thousand words. Which is our limit in this forum by the way.

[S.Airing]

This is what I did on Sirocco,very simple just inclose the shelves and install doors.

[S.Airing]

Starboard side shelves door

[S.Airing]

Port side gally

[Scott Galloway]

The Sirocco,#205,Ariel photos are marvelous. Very interesting tratment of the main salon space. I assume that the starboard sette is no longer 74 inches long, since the ice box appears to take up some space at the aft end of what was once the settee. Do you happen to have some photos of the v-berth area. I am still considering options to modifications to that area on my boat, hull #330, and I am interested in your treatment of that area.

[S.Airing]

I dont have much for the v berth,too small for pictures,you are correct the starboard bunk is now a 4 feet long love seat.Its my favorite spot on the boat.I think that the Ariel is only a 1 or 2 person boat anyway.

[Scott Galloway]

Thanks for the quick response and the photo of Sirocco's v berth. I see how you handled the port side shelf and the chain locker. Nice job. I have stripped and repainted my interior, and refinished all the wood, but I am still considering options for improving the interior design, and I need to deal with the faded and hole-riddled imitation wood formica. I agree with you about the Ariel being a one or two person boat. Due to the previous owner's very well designed and well built chart table arrangement, in the space where the ice box used to be, I do not want to build an ice box in that area. I am also not terribly fond of the head under the berth arrangement, and so I am looking for creative solutions. I am much impressed with your modifications to Sirocco. A photo of the chart table on "Augustine" is attached. Other photos of my boat in its current interior-repainted but margely unmodified condition appear on my Ariel page http://www.solopublications.com/sailarip.htm