FORWARD HATCH IDEAS.

[scottwilliams]

THE RESTORATION OF 269 IS COMING ALONG VERY NICELY - I HATE TO PUT THE OLD SEE THROUGH FORWARD HATCH ON WITHOUT SOME SPRUCING UP. ANY IDEAS OTHER THAN JUST PAINTING OVER IT. HAS ANYONE ADDED A BUBBLE TOP ? THANKS SCOTT 269

[Brent]

Mine is in good condition, so I'm going to keep it as-is until I have time to make something else.

There was an article in Good Old Boat a few months back that described how one person made a traditional hatch cover. Quite nice. Needed lots of varnish :D

[commanderpete]

I remember seeing a picture of a boat (not an Ariel) where the guy had cut out the center fiberglass section and replaced it with a sheet of lexan. Attached the lexan with about 100 screws and nuts.

Actually, it looked pretty bad with all those screws showing.

Maybe if the screws were covered up with some wood trim it would have looked OK.

I believe the hatch has a camber to it that might complicate the job too.

Of course, if you want to go nuts, you could do what Tim did on Glissando and replace the whole shebang with a manufactured hatch.

[Hull376]

My hatch is probably like a lot of others--- still serviceable, but starting to show the fiber pattern after years of wear. Is there a clear coating of some kind that will work to spruce it up (don't want to just paint over it). I haven't worked much with resin--- assume rolling some on it on would just make a mess, an uneven mess-- but then with all the new high science out there, maybe there is something I don't know about.

[Mike Goodwin]

Roll on a couple of coats of poly resin ( not epoxy ) and then wet sand with 400 grit . Give it a coat of wax and it looks like new.

[Hull376]

Thanks, Mike. You guys (and gals---- Don't want to forget Janice) know your stuff. I'm also just about to coat Charisma's topsides with Interthane plus--- first time ever painted--- so will take some pics of the blue gelcoat for the archives. I'm not aware of many of these boats that haven't been sanded and painted already.

[Dan Maliszewski]

Anyway, here's my two cents from Jersey.

Like Mike, I masked off the original hatch edges, prepped and flowed on a nice coat of West system epoxy onto the opaque center panel. It leveled out nicely and still looks great after five years.

[Ted]

I've seen a couple of nice ideas, ranging from adding teak strips to strengthen and beautify to completely replacing it with a modern hatch system. But my personal favorite is to cut a square out that is almost the entire top of the hatch, perhaps 1" in from each side. Then bolt a nice sheet of lexan over the hole. If you are really motivated, put a nice solar vent in it to keep the cabin fresh when it is closed up.

Ted

[vanguard64]

On my recently purchased Ariel #407 AdAstra, the latch for the foward hatch consists of 2 parts. There is a metal piece measuring 1/2 inch thick, 1/2 inch wide and 3 inches long ending in a yoke. The front end has a screw where it pivots. This screw passes through the cabin top with the head of the screw outside. The other part on the front of the lid is a long screw with a wing nut and washer that tightens against the yoke. The problem, of course, is that water enters around the screw and hence into the cabin top core and then runs and drips inside. I would like to eliminate this completely. I can't imagine this being original. I would like to know what kind of latch is original or at least what I should replace this with.

[Ted]

That latch system is the original and it will last forever, or until your Ariel is destroyed by a hurricane as mine was. I'd leave it alone -- don't fix what ain't broke!

Of course, now that I have a Cape Dory, I'm kind of partial to the Bomar hatch. My Bomar is water tight. My Ariel's forward hatch was not water tight in heavy seas, even cranked down with new rubber. And my Bomar can be opened at any angle to allow better air flow when anchored.

Happy sailing!

[carl291]

Vanguard64, I was going to refer you to Ted but I see he has Chimed in. Hi Ted , Enjoying the Cape Dory

[vanguard64]

I understand the notion of " if it ain't broke don't fix it" but how do you keep water from dripping around the screw that holds the yoke. No doubt the I need to isolate the core here but water will still pass into the cabin around the screw. I have thought about rubber washers, o-rings etc. Any other suggestions?
In addition, has anyone installed a telescoping arm to hold the hatch in place?
Thanks,
Marcelo Gentinetta

[mbd]

Marcelo,

I've got the same setup as well.

After you properly isolate the core, you can countersink the screw hole and add some polysulfide or other sealant to make it watertight.

Here's an excellent How-To site and a picture explaining how it works:
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/sealing_the_deck&page=1

http://ic2.pbase.com/g1/84/622984/2/105506472.BOjKVtKr.jpg

PS. I use various bungee cords to hold the hatch open. Not perfect, but it works OK...

[ebb]

Wholly Catphish, talk about forensics!
Nice looking bolt, like the top, kind of unusual too.
(Actually it's a pan-head machine screw.
In this case, although it's not obvious here what work the screw is doing, apply caulk in the threads as well, for redundant leak-proofing.
Use butyl, if the screw is to be unfastened for future maintenance. Butyl will not harden, but can't be used if the fixture might move like a stanchion base. If the machine screw will actually be taken out in the future, could also use an O-ring in the chamfer for compression - with butyl. McMasterCarr.)

You can find laminated washers in 316 that have a squeezable rubber bottom that seals the hole under the nut. I would guess it would work under the head as well.

For keeping hatch open I'd be looking at a FRICTION type holder so that if you stepped or sat on the hatch it would slam shut but not break anything. I've thought about those metal spring thingies but think there should be a solid bendable rubber version that would bend easier. It must exist. Anyway, any external pressure, should close the hatch.


I cut the old up-molded-flange hatch out wholesale to replace with a Bomar.
(I couldn't get my shoulders through the old hatch!)
I found balsa deterioration on the mast side and something not quite as bad - which I left alone - on the forward side. Realize I exposed the composite deck here - completely open.

While the hatch was pretty crude on Lit'lgull, if it had been the right size for me I would have kept it. I think there are various ways to upgrade the hatch system and make it 95% waterproof. For instance not only can you seal with a NEW U-shaped push on rubber strip that the top closes on - but another seal could be added around the bottom of the lid.

Seal holes with WET epoxy - ALL thru-deck fasteners that penetrate the composite deck and cabin top.
Without exception!

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____________


Drilling for fasteners thru the top of our (balsa-core) composite:

Simple, easy idea for drilling holes in the deck for fasteners is to use a W.L.Fuller STEP COUNTERBORE. SD14F will drill a 1/4" hole.
Right behind it (5/16") is the integral counterbore which makes a 1/2" hole with a 180 degree flat bottom.
You set a collar on the counterbore to just above the depth of the inner skin. You know, so you don't penetrate it with the counterbore - just the 1/4" bit goes through.
Drill the hole, tape it off underneath. fill it with epoxy liquid and let it set, then redrill the epoxy plug for the fastening.
That redrill could be done with a drill bit with COUNTERSINK which will give you chamfer on the top for the screw head and/or 'rubber gasket'.:cool:

Look it up on the wlfuller.com site. (High speed steel step drills)

[vanguard64]

I greatly appreciate everyone's input. The countersinking technique to improve the seal makes good sense. Today, I isolated the core at the screw hole just forward of the hatch. I will go back on Wed. and countersink the hole to apply the sealant. In other news, I also found a bad situation under the metal brackets holding my Bimini top poles. These brackets are located just aft of the winches and are screwed into the side deck. The previous owner had used #10 Machine screws to attach these brackets!The screws went into the core and had NO nuts since they did not go through the deck! You could have pulled the brackets out with your hand if you wanted to. To my great surprise the core was dry at all holes! I isolated all of these holes with epoxy and will properly attach the brackets.
I also examined the hatch gasket and its dry and cracked. Does anyone know where to buy a replacement?

Thanks again,
Marcelo

[Bill]

I also examined the hatch gasket and its dry and cracked. Does anyone know where to buy a replacement?

The association had a batch of the hatch weatherstripping produced during the '90's. Stuff must be custom made. The supply of weatherstripping has been exhausted for some time -- six or seven years? -- Someone asked about it a year or so ago and we requested feed back on who else was interested. (The minimum order is substantial to cover set up costs.) Unfortunately, no interest was expressed. :(

[ebb]

Bill,
Have to repeat things ten times before anyone picks up on something important
even then it'll hang on their mind like a leaf on a wet windshield.... it'll just be gone

Maybe if you'd kept the Edge Seal alive on the front page - with the Manual and Burgee and Rudder Post Bearing - even if you didn't have any left,
but had a message set up for those who really wanted the seal, and wanted to deal - it might have happened. Might still be happening.

I wonder how many Correspondents here have any idea what the "rudder post bearing" IS?
Righhht! not until the rudder breaks!

Somebody look at McMasterCarr EDGE GRIP SEALS on page 3438 and 3439.
If you do find something, the rubber HAS to be EPDM.
The vinyl edge grip with the round rubber bulb top might be a decent substitute.
But it ain't cheap.

If you have to stick EPDM to itself or to the boat use
3M Weatherstrip Adhesive 08011 Black (sic)