How tall is the Commander?

[Commander 147]

I'm trying to figure out if the commander will fit into my current boat house when I get it. The boat house has a 9 foot wide opening and 9'-6" tall opening. I know the trailer will have the keel 14 to 16 inches off the pavement (maybe a little less) so if I can figure out how tall the boat itself is I know weather or not I am going to have to rebuild my boat house.

Can anyone help?

[Rico]

Commander,
You can try the dimensions sheets included as a PDF attachment in Post #11 in C-155's thread to see if any dimensions included there help. (Link follows)

http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?t=1552


My feeling is that the boat will fit...

If I recall, it is about 7.5' from the bottom of the keel to the bow tip. That leaves two more feet for the balance, which is not much... I'd guess between 1.5 to 2 feet...

Might be close! (remember you can always get a few more inches clearance by letting the air out of the tires!)

Good Luck!

[Commander 147]

First let me say that you are an inspiration to me. I am very impressed with the level of quality workmanship you have put into 'Mephisto Cat' and I hope that the work I put into my commander is as nicely done as your is.:)

Second the specs you gave me the link to were already in my commander file from when you originally posted them. I printed them out then and hung on to it since I was sure they would come in handy when my trailer was being built. On your specs you show 88" from bottom of keel to top of bow. If I allow 14" from bottom of keel when it is on the trailer to pavement that makes it 102" to top of bow on the trailer. The unknown dimension for me is the distance from top of bow to top of cabin top. If that dimension is 12" or less I should be able to get her in.

And last but certainly not least would you be willing to share some of your thought proccesses with me on the way you built your trailer. My trailer guy is talking about 6 pads (3 on each side) instead of the bunk boards that you have done. I'm sure the bunk boards give better support for the boat but how have you found them to be when launching your boat?

I saw where you added a winch base which also has a ladder built in which would not only allow access to the winch but also to the boat itself. Did you find that by simply floating the boat on the trailer the boat would not sit where it was designed to sit without the winch base?

I assume you need a long tongue extension to launch your boat. do you find when launching that the extension bottoms out where the ramp starts to go down before you get the boat to the water?

Do you know how deep the water needs to be to float the boat off the trailer? The reason I ask this question is because Initially I plan to put my commander in a lake I currently sail at a lot. There are no lifts on the lake to put the boat in with. And of the 3 ramps on the lake there is only one with the water level at it's currently low level where I think I may be able to get the boat in the water at all. That ramp has 40 feet of ramp under water and at the end of the ramp the water is 6 feet deep. So I will need a 20 foot extension to get the trailer axles to the deep part of the ramp where I can float her off.

And finally can you tell me how the forward axle on your trailer functions? How does that help you launch?

Sorry Rico for all of the questions but based on your prior posts I respect your opinion and would very much like your help in working through the issues I'm facing to sail a commander.

[Chance]

Hi,
Speaking from factual measurements I just took with a tape measure, and because my set up sounds like what you are looking to achieve, I humbly sumit the following for you:

Your dimension you requested in the nice photo sketch representation above is: 96 and 1/4 inches.

Here's a breakdown of my set up which led to the above dimension provided:

From the concrete to the bottom of the forward section of the keel is: 16 and 3/4 inches.
From the concrete to the bottom of the metal truss supports on the boat shed is: 9 feet 10 inches.
From the companion way hatch to the bottom of the metal truss supports on the boat shed is approximately: 5 inches. This means I basically only have about 5 inches of clearance between the bottom edge of the trusses and the highest contact points of the cabin (the sliding hatch). However, to achieve these clearances I had to remove the bow pulpit! The pulpit's height is even greater and thus when I had it attached, I was unable to back the boat under completely due to interference. When it comes time to reinstall the pulpit, I'll have to pull the nose of the boat out from underneath the metal shed to eliminate this clearance problem.
The photo that I have attached is before I removed the pulpit and thus the boat is not completely under the shed for work. It's hard to depict in this photo, but trust me, with the pulpit on, it will not clear a 9 foot, 10 inch span, if your keel is about the same height off the concrete.
Enjoy the work ahead, like so many others, it is very rewarding and a fulfilling experience.

[Rico]

Chance - I dreamt of having a shed and a work area like yours when working on the Mephisto Cat! Ceili will be a happy boat!

Commander Willbe - thank you for the kind words. You will soon be an expert on all things related to Commanders! - and my apologies for the late reply - I just noticed the post with questions for me above. Somehow it was not highlighted as a new post on the board in the before today...

Bunk Boards vs. Pads:
My priority for this dilemma was support while in transport. The keel bears most of the load, but the hull is subjected to strong lateral & also impact loads transmitted from the road surface. The bunk boards provide a much greater surface area for support so this is the route I took.

I have not launched the boat off a ramp, or of the beach yet as I've been lucky to find a suitable lift each time. But it is my intention to lower the rear boards to guide the boat into the water. The boards are adjustable/removable just as the pads are.

Winch stand/Ladder /Mast carrier:
In addition to being a nice way to climb on to the boat when it is on the trailer, the winch is useful to maintain the keel at the correct position on the trailer. I was shooting for a tongue weight in the 700-800lb range. The heavy keel changes this significantly with any shift in position forward or back on the trailer. Again, I've not launched from a ramp yet, but even with a lift, there was a bit of trial & error to ensure the final location of the keel. I have now marked it on the trailer. What I like the most is the permanent Mast carrier which provides much stability at least to the front end as it is strongly attached to the trailer and not the boat!

Tongue extension:
I have a long-is nose on the trailer (which suits manouvering on the road and during a basic ramp launch. I do not have an extension built into the trailer as this would not give the required scope in an extreme case anyway.

My thought was that an independent extension (Long square tube with a ball on one end & a ball hitch on the other) would be the way to go and work best as it would be flexible at both ends and not bottom out (the weight of the front end of the trailer would rest on the forward (third) axle when pushing the trailer into the water). This is the only way to get the scope lenght I'd need in case of a beach launch while keeping the tow vehicle on out of deep water.

Water depth:
The water would neet to reach the waterline in order to float the boat off. I think that 6' should get your waterline wet... Depending on how high your trailer is!

Forward axle:
As described above; the forward axle supports the front-end of the trailer when being pushed far into the water with a flexible extension which lacks the ability to keep the front end off the ground.

I hope this helps!

[Commander 147]

Chance

Your post was very helpful. Your setup is as you guessed very close to what I plan for my commander. Do you have a good idea how much higher the entrance needs to be to allow for the bow pulpit? Since it looks like I will indeed need to rebuild my boathouse I want to start planning for how the rebuild will be done.

Rico

Your insight is also very helpful. Your logic about the better support with the bunkboards makes a lot of sense. I will talk with my trailer builder further about that.

Your winch stand is something I will absolutely copy (hope you don't mind). I really like all the things it does for you.

As far as the tongue extension goes my trailer builder does a seperate extension that is similar to what you describe. His has wheels on the end where it connects to the trailer to keep it from dragging on the ground.

When I asked my trailer builder about water depth to float the boat off and back on (the second part is harder than the first) he first said 7 feet. Which is why I got concerned with my ramp only having 6 feet of water. But after we talked for a while we decided to use a v-axle to lower the boats keel to approx. 14" above the pavement. We also plan to have him add a skid bar in front of the front axle to keep from losing an axle if we fall of the end of the ramp. I'm still nervous that I might find myself hiring a crane to come out and lift the boat out if I can't get her back on the trailer with only 6 feet of water.

[Chance]

Your welcome, glad to be of any little assistance. As for a clearance distance (dimension) needed to be able to back the Commander under with the pulpit in place, I would go with 10 feet 6 inches.

Rico:
Thanks for the kind comment. I too, feel fortunate, and still find myself wishing I would have had heat available these past couple of months. You have done an incredible job with Mephisto Cat and it's beautiful vessels like yours and many others that keep motivation moving in the right direction. Now if only I could get things accomplished at the rate / speed that you and others have somehow managed, that would really be something.