moving astern under power

[ebb]

Commander Lucky Dawg (see post #38 on that Gallery page) mentions something that creates terror in my gut,
control of a boat ON THE WATER.
Admiral Bill has witnessed this windbag going around in circles and frontway too
in HIS MaiTai,
out of control!

As Kyle points out, it's a piece of cake on land....

Our hulls obviously are not meant to be backed up. The obvious solution is not to back up the boat. Simple. For those of us foolish enough, maybe some seasoned (salt and pepper?) skippers have a few
TIPS
for us???

When backing out of a slip (using an OB) there is not enough flow over the rudder. The propeller pulls the boat asymetrically in the direction the thing is turning. The turning radius of an A/C is about as wide as a 16 wheeler. There is a chorus of ancient harpies, wind, wave, current, tide and inexperience grabbing the boat at all times....
__________________________________________________ ________________________________________

google> How to back a sailboat into a slip - A Charter Connection article
google> Full Keel Boat in Reverse Nov 23, 2002
google> Minimizing "Prop Walk", Help Wanted Dec 19, 1998

Backing up the boat is a problem for everyone! Basically is a problem that the designer of our boats forgot to address. One guy puts his rudder hard over, guns his engine and backs out almost in control.

My thought is, apropos backing with an OB, is to gun the motor in reverse, then gun it it forward, then in reverse. then forward. Would this work?

Most OB installations in A/Cs have the OB locked straight on. That's fine for forward. Does anybody think that the OB could be canted to one side in the hole when going astern to somehow counter the prop walk?

ANY IDEAS, EXPERIENCES, QUESTIONS, HELP?????

[bill@ariel231]

with my inboard (and a RH prop), there is a smallish tendency to walk to stbd. not really a problem with a clean prop. it's a real problem when the prop is fouled. As a rule I tend to push the boat most of the way out of the slip by hand if the wind is helping (i'm usually most of the way out of the slip before the engine is in gear). a crew with some dockline handling skills can deal with any other problems that arise. When I'm solo, the same procedure works for me will a little less finesse....;)

The folks i know with outboards all have steerable units (on ensigns and J-24's). They make backing up look easy.

[CapnK]

Ebb -

I don't know if you'll be able to do it with your larger engine, but with my 6hp Merc, I have learned to loosen up for swiveling when in amongst the slips, for forward and reverse. Directional thrust, helps a lot. Especially here, where current is the rule rather than the exception. Half the time, the current works wid ya', half ag'inst ya.

I've also learned that discretion IS the better part of valor with our not-so-nimble boats, and am not shy about tying up on the face dock and waiting for an adverse current to slow or stop before noodling all the way into my slip. :)

--------------

As an aside, but concerning reversing, here follows what could possibly be considered another 'technique' that might come to mind to someone in a tight spot one day... Like the infamous Bills Boat Meets Buoy story, it is not a heroic tale of how great a master of my vessel I am. Yet - those are the situations where we learn most, and possibly best - or at least - quickest. :D So, in the interests of full disclosure, I start my tale... ;)

--------------

Summer before last, I waited late to leave for a tropical storm. By the time I left winds were 30-35 kts consistent + higher gusts, and I found that I had to 'tack' to motor upwind. While attempting to cross underneath the large concrete ICW bridge, the combination of turbulent head current and headwinds came *way* too close to driving me into the bridge pier - I gave it everything she had, but just couldn't make it. At the last second, I fell off, slammed on reverse, and the pulpit swung past the concrete with 6" or less to spare.

Meanwhile, CrewDog Molly - who'd gone forward to investigate this Huge Rock swinging by right at the bow - was tossed off when a larger-than-normal chop hit us, and the boat suddenly began moving backwards.

Things were a bit stressful, at that moment, to say the least. ;)

I stuffed CrewDog Buffett belowdecks to minimize the possibility of even more 'calamity', while calling for Molly to swim back towards the cockpit. Suddenly I realized that we were progressing *straight upwind*, under full-power in reverse. What?

I backed my way a nice long stretch upriver, calling Molly, until I had enough room to grab her and swing her in the cockpit, while slamming the boat back into forward and turning away from the bridge. Crisis resolved.

Safe again and making progress towards the hurricane hole, I sat there and calmed down, and tried to figure out why the boat would move upwind, straight upwind, in reverse, when it wouldn't - *couldn't* - do that in forward gear.

The only explanation I can think of is that the wind was strong enough that it would blow the bow down regardless when in forward, overpowering my motors thrust. However, when in reverse, the bow naturally fell behind and streamlined , creating less resistance, even though in that direction the prop is much less efficient. (Probably 9hp would be able to keep the bow up there to 40 or more, but it is a trade-off, like everything else concerning boats.)

Learnings:

1) Running from tropical storms/hurricanes is like reefing - when it first occurs to you to do it, do it *THEN*, no hesitation. It won't get any easier, and the time is right.

2) If a situation evolves where progress Must be made upwind, but the bow won't stay up there to make it, try reverse, and let the bow fall off behind.

3) Last - with limited horsepower, there may well be a time when it is better to just run downwind, even if that is not the optimal direction. In the story above, downwind was towards the ocean, where storm surge and/or other storm effects would be of greater scale than a location upwind and inland.

[Hull376]

I use a shock cord to center the tiller, then swivel the OB Nissan 6 four stroke to control the boat in reverse. It works. Moving the tiller around just messes it up. The Nissan (Tohatsu) almost turns a full 90 degrees to each side so you can almost pull the boat sideways at the stern. I did this last October when backing out of a spot on Double Bayou on Trinity Bay. There was a really fast current from Thunderstorms during the night, and my boat was bow into the bank with lines from the stern cleats going out in a big V to some trees on the shore (the water right at the 2+ foot high bank is about 5 feet deep on the caving bank of this bayou. Just like pirates, we use planks to get aboard).

The trick was to get the darn boat into the current, but get it going stern upstream, and with that current, it was going to be really tough. But by swiveling the OB hard over into the current, then gunning it at the same time my crew released the stern lines did the trick. The stern swung upstream into the current and pulled the bow out. We didn't slide down stream, the bow just followed behind as I pointed the stern. There were lots of other boats along the bayou, so sliding downstream along the bank wasn't an option without very good insurance. I could even hold Charisma in position in the middle of the bayou, even with that current, without sliding around. This is one case where I wouldn't have wanted an inboard. I would have been more stressed than thinking about all the "Gators" in this bit of water.

[Lucky Dawg]

Whew! Glad it isn't just me! I like Kent's shock cord idea. I have one taming my tiller at dock anyway. If anyone is around watching though, I may be more likely to use Bill's idea of just pushing her out of the slip till she is pointed forward. I have to back out in tight quarters and swing the bow to starboard to leave my dock. When the more experienced than I sailor/OB-er at the docks came to offer aid, he had me swing both my engine and tiller in the direction I wanted my bow to turn. That seemed to work. Tried to practice out on the water, but that is obviously different than doing so in the thick of others' boats.
As you see below, getting out is a sticky wicket (plus, now there are two boats in all of those pictured slips) At least I don't have gators to contend with!!!

[c_amos]

Add another vote to the 'vectoring thrust' camp.

I do use the rudder, as I find that as soon as you have some stern way the steering is helped.

I 'bump' the throttle in reverse and back it off as soon as I start to move backwords. I grab the powerhead at the back with one hand and hold the tiller with the other.... I can steer and controll the motor pretty well.

I also find that a quick shift into forward to kick the stern in the right direction when backing helps if things are not going well (like when a cross wind is blowing the bow off).

I can back my boat better then other (inboard) boats I have sailed on, and back 'Faith' into her slip each time I sail.

FWIW,

I did a delivery on a Catalina 27 this weekend, and would gladly trade backing my Ariel for backing that supposedly nimble fin keel boat.

[Rico]

I find that a steearable outboard it the ticket...

I keep the tiller straight with my leg doing all of the manouvering with the OB thrust in reverse. The tiller is always helpful for additional steering once you have some motion and momentum especially once you have lifeted off the throttle.

Here is a tip: I am able to spin C155 essentially on its own length when in a tricky spot if I get the stern going in the 'wrong' direction as I reverse followed quickly by a bit of forward thrust on 'opposite lock'. (That first step is counter-intuitive, but it works quite well... - just don't forget the 2nd bit!)

I do not have to gun the engine at all, the trick is to build up just a bit of momentum going backwards in order to counteract any forward motion once you are powering ahead. Getting the big lump of lead moving even a bit is usually enough... Since it is pretty close to the center of gravity, once you get the hang of it you can spin in place like a top!

C155's PO showed me the trick as his slip was a bear to slip out of...

[Westgate]

Newton said:
Corpus omne perseverare in statu suo quiescendi vel movendi uniformiter in directum, nisi quatenus a viribus impressis cogitur statum illum mutare.

I say:
plumbum doesn't volo moveo tamen quondam is satus vigilo sicco! :eek:

Andrew

[SkipperJer]

I get reminded I arrived at sailing later in life every time I try to back my Commander. I discovered the steer-with-the-motor technique a little while ago and it works well. It narrows the variables down to two: the motor and the wind. But it is still a clumsy thing to do.

I've recently adopted a new avoid-backing-up-at-all-costs approach. Luckily I have two pylons at the end of my slip. I can bring the boat in slowly and stop perpendicular to the slip closing it off. With the tiller tied off in the center position, we can usually grab one of the pylons and start the boat in stern first by hand. Working the guide ropes on either side with reach poles we can walk the boat in and get it tied off. It takes a while but sure makes departing much easier: we just drive out. On mild days I can manage this by myself. On moderate days I won't do this unless I have crew. On windy days I drive straight in preferring to play the odds that I can back out with the motor safely the next time out. The occasional reminders that I'm not an expert do me good.

[Lucky Dawg]

A second sail today and getting in and out of my slip was more - but not perfectly - successful. I used Bill's "shove her in the right direction" model to leave - very successful. And Kent's shock cord to return. I depowered very early and still had to fend off my neighbor to dock, but it was better all around. I am going to write out some of the fancy tactics above step by step and try them out.

It will be a fun party trick to be able to do this without touching anything - give me a while.

Single handed today, so I took the the shock cord another step... the world's cheapest autohelm. Worked pretty well in today's light winds but the cord has a tendency to pull the tiller up to stress-the-tiller-head altitude. Otherwise, it gave me time to move around and adjust as needed. Maybe a real Tiller Tamer is in order.

[commanderpete]

A video about steering in reverse with a tiller

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PS2AQ65Z0s&feature=channel

My vote is for the vectoring thrust outboard also. Backing into a slip can get ugly without it.