Lifelines and Stanchions

[commanderpete]

It can be a little scary being on the foredeck if the boat doesn't have lifelines. You can get away with it if you have roller furling. If you have hank on sails, lifelines are a necessity.

It always amazes me that lifelines were optional equiptment, as was the pulpit!

What is wrong with the stantions? broken? poorly bedded?

[amowers]

I am not confident in the stanchions' bedding. Someone can create a lot of leverage on the deck by leaning on the tops of one of these poles. People always seem to want to grab the stanchions when they are helping me dock and launch the boat - perhaps if my docking were more perfected they wouldn't have that urge.

I saw the guy at the shipyard, where I hauled my boat out last year, move the boat by pushing on one of the stanchions. He bent it. That can't be good for the deck - a 250lb guy cranking on a lever 2+ feet above the deck. No matter how much I tell people not to do that sort of thing they are always doing it.

Are the safety lines actually going to help keep someone safe while they are on the foredeck? I have two pictures in mind:

1) one where somebody goes out on my foredeck and is holding onto these lines thinking it's a safe thing to do and an accident happens because they are on the wrong part of the foredeck

2) somebody is low on the foredeck, the boat heals, and they fall against one of these lines and in some way it keeps them from going overboard.

I am not sure which is more likely.

[amowers]

I will give it more thought before doing anything.

[S.Airing]

Commanderpete,you finally have your boat back in the water?

[commanderpete]

Boat is back in the water. Construction will continue, at a reduced pace, mixed with sailing. Those pictures are from last year.

As for lifelines, I think if you have them you should keep them. They may not always prevent someone from going over, but could save the day. I'm going to put some on one of these days. Like Steve, some people extend the lifelines all the way around the boat.

My old Commander had lifelines but I still did the crab crawl or butt slide on the foredeck when conditions were rough and the sail needed dousing or changing.

No doubt the lever effect causes a big stress point on the deck. You could bed them more securely--with backing plates above and below. But, a collision might cause them to rip a big hole in the deck, instead of just a bent stantion or screws pulled through.

What the hell, if they're causing you aggravation, go ahead and take them off and fill the holes. Won't take long unless the screws are frozen. See how it feels. You can always put them back on. Probably need to be re-bedded anyway, big source of leaks.

My pet peeve is people standing up in the cockpit. Makes me nervous.

[Brent]

Assuming your stanchions are the original and that your deck may be somewhat soggy, it wouldn't be a bad idea to remove them and judge the feel.

If you think you need them, make sure the deck is solid and not delaminated from the fiberglass; a stanchion will only be as strong as the deck it is mounted on.

If you are going to replace them, Practical Sailor rated Matella Manufacturing's (www.matella.com) stanchions the best. There was also an article in Good Old Boat (www.goodoldboat.com) not too long ago. They are supposed to support 2x the weight of traditional SS tube stanchions.

[Al Lorman]

When I bought Commander 26 a few years ago, it lacked lifelines, which made me very nervous. I bought the Matella stanchions (after having an email discussion with Dan Spurr, then the editor of Practical Sailor), probably one of the first boatowners on the East Coast to do so. They are stunningly attractive and unbelievably strong. Because a Commander has no headliner, they are also very easy to install using proper backing plates. The bad news: it seems I was one of the few folks to buy Matella stanchions, and for a while they said that they were no longer going to make them., despite all the good PR they got. I just checked their web site and it says they're making them again. Buy them! The world needs such high quality products. (Or buy my boat with the stanchions already installed. It's still for sale.)

[Bill]

Al,

Do you have photos of the installation? I'm Interested in their spacing along the rail and how they interact with the shrouds. Did you use three? Which model? Any additional backing?

[Al Lorman]

Bill:

I'm afraid that I don't have any photos. I used three 26" stanchions per side. I mounted them pretty much in the same locations shown in my copy of the Commander deck layout blueprint that I inherited with the boat. I did not attach them to the bowsprit. Instead, I mounted the forward lifeline turnbuckle to a block of mahogany I expoxied and bolted to the deck. The first and second stanchions precede and follow the shrouds and the lifelines, as I recall, passed between the upper and lower shrouds. It never caused a problem for me. When I bought them, Ron was only making the model with the big integral studs, rather than the bolt-on model he also makes now. The studs are big, but in a Commander only the center stanchion studs were in a visible locdation. Don't know how that would work in an Ariel. The stanchions come with very nice aluminum backing plates, but I used 3/4 inch plywood under the aluminum backing plates to spread the load further. My Commander is on the hard not too far from my new boat, so if you need more precise details, I can swing by and take some measurements for you.

[Bill]

Al,

Thanks, that's plenty of information. We also have the deck layout plan and just wanted to see if there were any locational problems. I plan to take a look at another boat with Pierson installed stanchions to see how they handled the cabin liner. It ends about three or four inches from the hull bulkhead -- about where the stanchions would attach.

[Theis]

Another approach. I do consider lifelines an absolute necessity (in the same league with a pfd and a tether.)

My Shaeffer 26" stanchions and Shaeffer pads are mounted on approximately a 1/8" neoprene pad (to give some "bounce" from an inpact so the deck isn't cracked)

On the underside I have an oversized 3/8-1/2" piece of plywood (also to absorb shock), covered with an aluminum plate (so the nuts won't pull through the plywood). The entire assembly is imbedded in sulfite caulking.

The lifelines themselves must only be made out of stainless, and should be plastic coated (They are available from West or any rigging shop). It is important that, if corrosion is a possibility, the lifelines be checked annually. I have discovered, after trusting the lifelines for several years, that one end on one lifeline was only being held by a couple threads. The answer, don't use galvanized cable as the prior owner had done.

[Al Lorman]

Re: lifelines: although virtually no one does it, I have read in an authoritative source (i.e., I can't remember where) that the very best lifelines are made of uncoated stainless steel because the vinyl coating can hide corrosion, as Peter found out. I actually considered using uncoated stainless when I installed stanchions/lifelines, but I didn't want to deal with the issues posed by mixing aluminum Matella stanchions and uncoated stainless.

[Theis]

Uncovered lifelines and aluminum stanchions would be an absolute NO NO. You might not even see the corrosion occurring where the two meet - it would just break SURPRISE!

The coated lifelines are significantly more attrctive, but the other features are they are thicker (Thick stainless steel would cost a relative fortune, I would expect) and less likely to cause a burn if you get rubbed across them. If you have the misfortune to get flipped over or slammed against or driven along a lifeline, I can't imagine raw stainless steel is very comfortable, particularly on a hot summer day when all you are wearing is your Speedo.

[commanderpete]

No Speedo pictures, please :D

[ootsk]

I happen do do some offshore races on other boats, so I've adapted a few of the rules governing those boats.
Plastic covered lifelines are NOT allowed, as it makes it impossible to inspect.
On each lifeline I made it about 4 inches shorter than required, and I use light line, wrapped many times, to bridge the gap. This allows you to cut the line in an emergency, lowering the lifelines to the deck, making it easier to get somebody back on board your boat.
It seems to make sense.
Mike Geer
MICHALLA #271

[ebb]

in this age of plastic why haven't they come out with a clear coated lifeline?

Aren't some people using hitech no stretch line (braid) now? Comes in colors.