Suitability for Offshore work?

[joe]

Hello, I am looking for a boat that is sufficiently well built to get me from the West coast of the US to Hawaii and then from the Gulf coast of the US to the UK. I have been looking at Ariels on the internet and have some questions. What is the headroom in an Ariel's cabin? Water and holding tank capacities? Strength of rigging? Other than length, what are the basic differences between an Ariel and a Triton? Has anyone here made such a trip in an Ariel? All responses are appreciated! Thank You

[ebb]

Ahoy Joe,
Take some time to explore this forum here using the SEARCH mode at the top of the page. Ariels and Commanders have made ocean voyages and are worthy offshore boats.
Boats this old (40 years) will require rennovation and preparation for offshore. Depends on your vision, your wallet, and your tradeoffs. Visit www.atomvoyages.com for Baldwin's twice circumnavigated Triton. I would personally listen to every word of his experience. He is very generous with his advive.
Bon Voyage and hope you find an Ariel to go! :cool:

[joe]

Thanks for the reply. I've previously checked out the website and it is exceptional! The budget is very small,probably like most people's. If i had a huge budget, I'd try to find a mint condition Triton with windvane, watermaker, brand new sails, new Diesel and the whole nine yards, just like a few thousand other people but alas the reality of budget and time constraints dictate otherwise. I have to have the whole lot ready to go from California to Hawaii not later than the first week of May 2007. I'm currently in Oklahoma.

[Bill]

For starters, you might read the "Sailing to Hawaii" thread: http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?t=927

[joe]

Thanks so much for posting that link. Absolutely fascinating story!

[Bill]

Here's another ocean sailing story:
http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?t=887

You should find more if you click on the search button and enter - ocean sailing.

[frank durant]

Joe...don't forget one key ingredient in 'suitable for offshore work'.....you.What ever boat you decide on....get out there...get used to waves and how the boat reacts...get used to reefing alone..get used to weather-skies/clouds and what they mean..get your experience and confidence.You may be a 'seasoned sailor' and I'm typing this for nothing,but the key ingredient in 'suitable for offshore' is the captain.

[joe]

Thanks Frank for the message. I've got quite a few miles under the keel so to speak but the more important point is to be familiar with The boat as each one is really so different. One of my old friends had been a sailor for many years on at least three different boats that I knew of. He left Groton, Connecticut on a new to him boat for the Med. He was capsized two days out in a not so bad storm. He told me that he handled her the same way he had handled one of his previous boats of similar rig, displacement, etc... but she just rolled over in a 30 kt. wind and 8 ft. swell. I told him that maybe she just didn't like him :D . He made many more successful trips on her AFTER he got to know her.

[eric (deceased)]

joe--- check your personal message mailbox

[joe]

Thank you all very much for all of the info :)

[ebb]

After the disasterous Fasnet Race in '79 the Cruising Club of America set up a committee that produced a Screening formula that came up with a controversial cut-off number for cruisers. That number is 2. Under 2 is considered ok for bluewater.

The capsize formula is: Beam / (Displacement/64) .333 {cube root}
8 / (5280 / 64) {cu rt}
8 / 82.5 {cu rt}
8 / 4.35329
= 1.8

Carl's (internet, not Alberg) Sailing Calculator comes up with these numbers for Ariel:
18' WL - 25.5 OA - 5280# Displacement - 8' Beam - 300 ftsq Sail Area:

hull speed 5.7 - SA/Disp 15.83 - Disp/LWL 404 ( very high) - WL to Beam 2.25 (low) capsize ratio 1.84 - motion comfort 25.09 (Ted Brewer's formula with numbers from 5 to 60+)

For an explanation of what some of this, and much more, might mean, try
http://www.boatbuilding.com/article.pha/SailboatDesignRatios
If that don't work it's found at google
the boatbuilding community - Sailboat Design Ratios (Thanks to Dan Pfieffer)

Add one formula that I think goes like this:
A wave 1/2 the LOA of an Ariel - that is, a 13 foot wave is capable of tumbling the boat over 360. :eek:

[joe]

Figuring that sooner or later I will be capsized is a big part of the reason I chose an Ariel. Extremely well built, small enough so that I can plug the vents and have the hatch ready to close very quickly, with me INSIDE the boat :D
Additionally, I am a firm believer in reefing a little while before I think about reefing as I would much rather arrive than not. I've not yet run aground but I have been rolled, pitched and corkscrewed far in escess of 60 degrees in all dimensions in both sailboats and Submarines. That's the bad part about Submarines, they have a mighty grand sail but you just can't reef it !
Joe

[bill@ariel231]

they also roll like a pipe when on the surface....

let's see what the CCA formula shows:

The capsize formula is: Beam / (Displacement/64) .333 {cube root}

(33 feet) / ((6080 tons * 2000# per ton)/64)**(0.333) = 0.5763... OK I guess it passes the CCA thumb rule.

[tha3rdman]

My math isn't all that great, but how are you using .333 as a cube root? .333 is a third unless your raising it to the power of .333.

when i do:

(33 feet) / ((6080 tons * 2000# per ton)/64)^(0.333)
33/((12160000)/64)^(.333)
33/(190,000)^(.333)
33/57.489
1.742
or

1.7 to two significant digits

[bill@ariel231]

you have it right till the 33/57+ step.... 33/57 ===> 0.57 or so....

[tha3rdman]

Ahh 33 over the 57, i was taking 57 by 33, got ya.

[ebb]

...and isn't the displacement of ships still done in long tons? 2240#
None o this lubberly short ton stuff round haya.

[ebb]

That oughta change a few figures.

[Howard]

I got 1.839 using ebb's numbers....




they also roll like a pipe when on the surface....

let's see what the CCA formula shows:

The capsize formula is: Beam / (Displacement/64) .333 {cube root}

(33 feet) / ((6080 tons * 2000# per ton)/64)**(0.333) = 0.5763... OK I guess it passes the CCA thumb rule.

[bill@ariel231]

of course.. this formula was developed for sailboats destined for offshore racing not a general formula for all hull types... just amusing to see how other hullforms compute ....

(33 feet) / ((6080 tons * 2240# per ton)/64)**(0.333) = 0.5527... still passes with the wrong formula and ebb's long ton