Safety at Sea/Man Overboard

[noeta-112]

Hi All,
Noeta is finally wet and sheeting sys rigged. More on that later.
Sunday was aboard a Cape Dory 36 ft and the Capt. showed me his setup. When towing his dingy he leads painter through a rope clutch next to helm. MOB!!! Release the clutch and the dingy is dumped with the MOB. To help slow drift of dingy a lighter line is spliced into the painter and stops just short of the clutch and instead is attached to a sea anchor encased in PVC tube which is mounted fore & aft alongside stern rail.

Maybe this won't work in all cases ...but then ... What will?
Besides it's a lot easier to spot a dingy than a head bobbing about in the bay. Thoughts? Other Ideas?

Russ

[commanderpete]

Sounds like a good plan. I've never tried rigging something up.

I did have a MOB experience some years ago. I was at the tiller of my friends Catalina 25. Another friend came up the companionway, lost his balance, and went over the side. Rolled right under the lifeline. I couldn't believe it.

Tacked around on a reciprocal course. By the time I got back, we were moving pretty fast. I was worried about running him down while trying to get close. We managed to grab him and haul him aboard. Not very easy on a boat with a high freeboard.

Spent the next 5 minutes picking up all the boat cushions, etc. we had thrown in the water.

In the years since, I've had plenty of practice retieving hats, my flag and everything else that falls in the water.

Now, when something goes overboard, I immediately turn the tiller hard over to tack into the wind. Leave the jib backwinded. (This is part of the "Quick Stop" method) If you act fast, you should be no more than 50 feet away and heading back to it. Guage how the boat is moving towards the object. You might need to adjust the sails or let the jib or main loose so you can drift right down on it.

Seems to work.

I always keep my dock lines aboard and cleated. I also like long dock lines (35 feet). I figure I could tie a boat cushion on to a stern line and use it as a Lifesling type device. This is what I use to drag people through the water behind the boat when they want to go for a swim.

One thing I've learned in dragging people through the water. Most people have a hard time keeping their head above water when being dragged over about 4 knots, even with floatation.

Something to think about if you're relying on a harness.

[Theis]

Man overboard is perhaps my biggest safety concern. At five miles an hour, a person overboard is 400 feet away in a minute - that can be several wavelengths in a tough sea, and a floating head, even with the biggest floatation jackets, only rises a foot or so above the ambient water level.

I always carry a 15 foot man overpole mounted on a clamp on my backstay. With the pole is mounted a small drogue. At the top of the MOB pole is a canvas sock to hold the flag and the top of the pole to the backstay. The bottom of the pole rests on the aft end coaming. It is held in place by a bex head bolt screwed into the fiberglas ridge in the stern deck. The pole rests (but is not screwed to) on the bolt head. All this is available from from West Marine or Boat US. Pull the pin out of the bracket, lift the pole off the bolt and throw the whole thing overboard. The MOB then becomes something that not only can I see above the waves, but that the person overboard can swim to.

When cruising or sailing overnight, I also have a large MOB floating strobelight mounted to the MOB pole. That requires that the strobe also be lifted off the screw and thrown out - making the MOB procedure a double action.

Getting a found person back on board can be problematic as we all recognize. I have the inflatable horseshoe in the port lassaratee (or mounted on the lifeline when cruising). Throw the pouch out as far as you can towards the MOB, and the pouch inflates into a horeshoe. In that way you can circle around the person so he/she can grab the polypropolene floating line to the horseshoe. When the MOB is alongside, I also cary a block and tackle that I can attach to a harness, or a pfd containing including a harness, and hoist the MOB back on board. This is also carried in the port lassarette. Particularly if you are sailing with a smaller companion (like many females), there is no way he/she can get you back on board with his/her own strength without a block and tackle.

It is indeed rare that you hear of a sailboat foundering. But you do hear of people being lost that fall overboard. It is indeed a fearsome event.

Now, having said that, does anyone have any suggestions on how to get yourself back on board if you are sailing alone, on a teather, with a pfd?

[commanderpete]

"The proper attitude for a sailor is a state of morbid vigilance, bordering on paranoia"

I like that quote.

What kind of things do you worry about?

[ebb]

I worry that C'pete will no longer post on this forum.

[tha3rdman]

I think that quote lends well to many different "hobbies" I think every thing has something similar said about it, when I was younger and into dirtbikes it was "the day you think your better then the bike you'll be in the ER"

As far as fear, being first season sailors, the first time out a little foot, foot and a half chop caught us from the side, now it's nothing then it was "Ohhh S***" But now i fear inexperience, or being in a situation I havent yet had a chance to think out.

Side note: Last night I had a dream i was chasing 97 down (with a dinghy), the wife was at the helm and the whole bow of the boat was sunk up to the 1st big window, and she was just sailing along, I caught up to her with the dinghy and started grilling her about why isnt the bilge oump on and how she should have know the boat was fulla water.

So i guess i really fear sinking.

[commanderpete]

I think sailors always fear some dramatic catastrophe.

In reality, the cause of injuries is probably much more mundane.

If I had to guess, I'd say most people get hurt

1) Falling while getting on or off the boat;

2) Falling on or inside the boat;

3) Crushing injuries fending the boat off a dock or another boat;

4) Falling off the boat when its out of the water and up on blocks


Sweet dreams 3rdman

[commanderpete]

Of course, if you're worried about somebody getting killed, Man Overboard is the big one.

The Coast Guard statistics are pretty much the same every year. About 7 people die on auxiliary sailboats each year. All of them drown after falling overboard, none of them are wearing a PFD.

When you read the stories, in many cases the people are seemingly unable to bring the boat back to the victim, even in mild conditions.

Another rambling thought:

I think people often get into trouble through a "cascade of errors." It starts with something small--like a minor mechanical problem. They become fixated on the problem, or make some rash decision trying to fix it. Things just get worse and now you have a crisis.

Sometimes you do need to take quick and decisive action. But, for the most part, you have time to sort things out. Trust the boat.

Sailing is a very safe activity. Driving in your car is much more hazardous, mostly

[frank durant]

Fears....I can reef down for wind and waves, I can plan alternate anchorages for bad weather.I can have spares for potential problems. Nothing ..NOTHING gets my heart pumping like being caught out in a bad lightning storm. That totally helpless feeling of being a sitting duck,lightning bolts crashing down around you and this dam mast pointing skyward saying "hit me ,hit me" gives me my biggest adrenaline rush.

[mrgnstrn]

I totally agree about the lightening thing.

But I mostly worry about my crew. I race every Weds, rain or shine. And on the days that the winds and waves are up, I worry about losing somebody off the foredeck or something. To attempt to counter this I have two rules for everybody on the boat:
1. Nobody is to fall off the boat. Under any circumstance.
2. If I am asking you to do something, or you think you need to do something, and feel at all uncomfortable about violating rule #1, don't even attempt it.
I have a deep sense of responsibility for my guys/gals, and as of yet are uncomfortable with their level of skill/knowledge to let them do some of the daring things I did only a few years ago. Maybe that will pass. Doubt it. Really, I shouldn't let it pass completely.

[commanderpete]

Oh yeah, a big boat can develop some scary loads if its really blowing.

I'm on the Tartan 35 in this picture from Tues night.

What a difference it is using a carbon fiber pole. Everybody should have one ;)

Pete
"sell out II"

[drm901]

I recently met a sailor in Lion's Head, Ontario, Canada with some lightning experience.

I don't agree with his sentiments, but he is speaking from experience. He has been hit 3 times! First time there were 2 strikes on each side of his boat and it blew a hole in the side. Second was on the hard without the mast up! And the 3rd time was in a harbor.

He sure had his reasons for not worrying. If I had that his luck, I'm not sure I would get on the boat. I did ask where he slipped his boat, so I could be near, but not too near.

Really makes me wonder about my tactics. I normally try to get into a harbor, or at least near land so my mast isn't the only thing around for miles and miles.

[drm901]

I started wearing one this year. it has taken some time to get used to, but now that I have used it for over a month, I won't go without again. makes me feel a lot better when I'm up on the foredeck and the autopilot is going. Up here on the Great Lakes, you will probably die in under 2 hour due to hyperthermia. A PFD won't save you if you are 10 miles out.

[keelbolts]

I was called up one night to help reduce sail and found the boat in the middle of some ugly weather. Lightening was coming down at such a rate that it stayed light. I remember thinking I should go below & get my sun glasses. I've never seen anything like it since. We didn't get hit.

[ebb]

Got me a PFD Crewsaver with 65# flotation when acvtivated. It's pretty heavy - and UNapproved by the USCG. That extra flotation requires a large salamic CO2 bomb wrapped up in the device. Does anybody ever test these things.... by actually pulling on the cord, say, in a swimming pool? Voiding the warranty, of course - AND probably ten years goes by by the time you suddenly see the boat's stern go by! It's too damned expensive (How much am I really worth, anyway?) to replace regularly. And does the Captain know what to do anyway if someone goes overboard?


Was wanting to ask: WHAT'S YOUR DRILL WHEN SOMEONE FALLS OVERBOARD???

?
Immediately toss a seat cushion (the lifering is knotted to the rail with rock hard line)....
Come about to a broad reach, try to locate the skipper or your best friend who doesn't appear to be any more distinguishable than a bit of froth!
Say what.....? :eek:

[eric (deceased)]

avoid as much as you can from becoming part of the food chain

[commanderpete]

Here's a link, and some diagrams


http://www.ussailing.org/safety/Studies/1986overboardstudy.htm

[epiphany]

In reverse order:

4) 'Gettin et up' by sharks.

3) Sinking.

2) Lightning.


and #1:

Getting hit by lightning while the boat is sinking in the middle of a school of hungry sharks. :D

[ebb]

Thanks for the great diagrams, C'pete!
Which do you favor specific to the A/C?

[commanderpete]

I dunno. I've only been involved in one MOB. I was out on a friend's boat. One of the guys climbed up from below, lost his balance, and rolled over the side--right under the lifeline. I was at the tiller. Happened so fast I couldn't even make a grab for him.

I just tacked the boat around and went straight for him. Then we hauled him over the side.

This was about 25 years ago. I didn't know anything about recovery methods.

The idea is just to get back ASAP.

Things may not work out like in the diagrams. Most sailors have very little experience in close-quarters maneuvering under sail. It can be more tricky than you think. You may need to account for leeway, current, wave action, etc.

Best thing you can do is practice with floating objects. Approach them, go past, turn around, approach again. Doesn't have to be formal practice. I've picked up so many fenders and hats I've found floating around that I don't know what to do with them.

Most people fall overboard at the dock, myself included

[commanderpete]

Good thing there wasn't a camera around

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5m-cO6486k