comfort coamings

[ebb]

There is no doubt that the cockpit coamings are a main feature on the A/C.

However, while the design is critical (I've thought about taller ones) they are not comfortable and provide no back support. On a windy afternoon out on the Bay we stand on our Ariel coamings when the rail is in the water.

But fun sailing is also balancing a sandwich and a drink and lounging against something. We have the cabin by the companionway to lean egainst - but essentially the coamings are too low for back support. There have been times when they have been too sharp for sitting ON and I thought that a wide cap on the coaming would have been an excellent idea.

Has anyone raised their seat back? Or rigged something clever for civilized upright sailing? :D

[Just as I was about to exit it flashed that hinged ply pieces under the cushion (you do have a cushion?] could be folded up for some back support.]

[mbd]

They've got those portable stadium type seats. You could use that and keep the very handsome A/C lines intact...

[tcoolidge]

I second the motion for lightweight stadium/camping seats. Easily stowed, don't mar the finish and give you back support no matter where you want to sit or which way you want to face. They give some padding when you lean back against the coamings while bashing to windward and are great for kicking back with your feet up on the cockpit seats on a long reach. I don't leave the dock without them. Got mine from Campmor for ten bucks.
Tom

[Scott Galloway]

Gee Ebb,

I have never had a problem with that as long as I stay close hauled. Since Ariels like to sail at 30 to 40 degrees and since the bridge deck is very wide and flat, it makes the perfect backrest. Perhaps I could use a head pillow for the coaming boards I suppose.

...And if you do your downwind sailing at night, you can lie flat on one of the cockpit seats and steer the stars.:rolleyes:

[ebb]

Wondering if there is a good case for taller coamings. One of the pics in the Manual seems to show that and also a pretty curve to the top. 338's - I have to assume were original - are barely 7" off the deck at the cabin with a straight chalk-line run to 3".

The drawing in the Manual seems to show a coaming about twice as high as those I have taken off the boat. Looks to me the coaming would measure out at roughly 13" to 5" At that height they would have had to cut the coamings from 16" wide mahogany. While possible, doesn't seem likely.
338's were cut from 11 1/2" stock - like hardware store stock.

If the drawing is Alberg's and not a tracer's with a fat pen, then maybe we got snookered in the original outfitting of the Ariel. But then maybe some folks have taller and deeper coamings. Anybody know? I want to put back what the drawing shows.

Those versatile hiker's chairs are definitely a way to go for back support when sitting sideways in the cockpit - if you want comfort while at the tiller. Recent regatta experience suggests that tiller work is all abs and thighs.

Close hauled, and the crew braced across cockpit, the nearly vertical coamings are imco at exactly the right height to dig into the small of the back.

[Bill]

Close hauled, and the crew braced across cockpit, the nearly vertical coamings are imco at exactly the right height to dig into the small of the back.

You're supposed to put your butt over the top and onto the deck . . . :D

[Tony G]

Ebb,

have you checked back in the gallery pages yet? I seem to remember a thread about the coamings on Kuan Yin (I think). They were huge!

The Abeking & Rassmussen Concordias have nifty little fold-up 'beach' chairs at the aft end of the cockpit. Thought about making a set of them with a matching cockpit table for the nights we put up at the Yacht Club. :p

Hey! I got a couple of sheets of 1/8" Baltic birch this morning...we could mold nice cuuuurvy coamings. What's his name? Not L'Corbusier or McIntyer but definitely one of their peers :o geez getting old aint so bad until these things happen

[ebb]

Hey Tony!
See if I can find it tomorrow.

You may be thinking of Charles Eames who did those rosewood veneered shells perched on 5-legged aluminum pedestals stuffed with blackened calves leather that every CEO had in his office in the 60s. (ver' haut!) Out in the waiting room Eames did those nice curvey molded chairs, all steamed ply, that had those floating backs that adjusted a little to the sitter. Something like THAT would be real cool on the coamings!

A lot of archetect/designers got into bending ply into arms seats legs and back out of a single sheet, still connected. ie a single panel. Perhaps the most famous is the Han Pieck armchair that actually looks as comfortable as a padded one. Would like to have seen how it was done.

It was a Finn who probably got all the bending started in the early thirties with a lounge chair made of flat bent curves, Alvar Aalto. But I couldn't have remembered that, I looked it up. Wouldn't be surprised if the scandanavians invented birch ply! :D

[commanderpete]

Bob Perry says that he likes seat backs about 15" high. But, you have to consider aesthetics and the ability to step over them.

I'll have to try a camping seat.

The regular throwable cushions get hard on the butt after awhile.

Those white cushions that fit on top of a cooler are comfy.

[ebb]

C'pete,
like the new mizzen mast there, nice and bendy.
Talking about the coamings in your portrait, they look expansive and comfortable!

French's former Ariel, Kuan yin.
There is a small shot of the starboard coaming in the Gallery pages. Must have missed it back then. But it is definitely not factory as the fairing block is rather awkward and perpendicular. It is hard to make out, looks like the coaming actually has a reverse curve to it. ???

Would like to see a profile shot of the boat to make an accessment of the anomaly. Never know.


I know I agreed on another thread (Second Guessing C.A.) that doing what you want inside was ok as long as you exercised considerable restraint on the public side.
I've gone beyond the pale with the addition of the rear 'hutch' on 338 that I think will allow me to raise the coamings. Lost that sleek open look that I admire in unaltered Ariels - especially those without a stern rail. I like the spare racey look of low coamings. But they ain't comfy. Don't look comfy.

[ebb]

Maybe on a 45' cruiser.

Not hard to imagine a ss padded tube addition above the coamings. Probably curving off the cabin side, ending in a braced stanchion at the end of the cockpit. Have to step over it, of course, but at 15 or 16" it's something to grab onto getting out or into the pit.

Definitely ADD to that comfy feeling, wouldn't it? I'm more comfortable when I can lounge back with an elbow upon a rail. :)

[commanderpete]

Go ahead and make the coamings a few inches higher. Gonna look great. Just like a Commander :D

Always thought it would be nice if they were angled back a little, like on the Hinckley "Daysailor"

I got plenty more projects for you when you get done with that

[mbd]

Cozy. Are those golden winches?? ...and are those Ebb's horizontal winches on the side decks? Heck, I think he's building a Hinckley!

[ebb]

Gee, port & starboard cup o' comfort seats for the helm!
How about those sheets coming thru ports in the coaming to the gold plated winches. Have to sit sideways to haul on the line. What convenience! Think you might slide some on those mirror-varnished coamings? Make a fine hottub!

[Scott Galloway]

Sorry Ebb, The water temperature today at the Half Moon Bay buoy was 59 degrees and that's a bit cool for a hot tub. Today while I was sailing it dawned on my why you guys might not think that the coaming boards on the Ariel are comfortable. You are probably not wearing your USCG approved portable Type III backrests. :D

[commanderpete]

Jimmy Buffet bought Hinckley DS42 hull #2, and had it painted a lovely color.

[commanderpete]

Here's how they did the coamings on the Alerion Express 28

[Tony G]

The Alerion 28's cockpit looks very interesting. I've never noticed the seat extentions before. They appear to be factory from the way the nonskid follows the forward end of the board. The stowage outside of the seats, under the side decks, reminds me of an Ensign cockpit. For the amount of 'cha-ching', I was surprised to see the intruments backed with those plastic covers. I just thought they would look more like...like, well, the Hinckley DS42.

Hey ,C'Pete, is that really the grand poo-bah parrot head's boat?

[ebb]

Yeah, those seat wideners are pretty strange. What's the material? Don't look substantial enough to stand on on any point of sail, do they?

Too bad we can't use our inaccessable space under the decks for line stowage, like that. There is more back support in this tastey Alerion than the Ariel. And the turn of the coamings to the cabin side is tidy too, if a bit sharp cornered. Tho our rounded ones are real choice, and strong.

Looks at lot like an Ariel, don't it? I think it is the look of the Ariel I like in the Alerion, which is a very traditional style.

They could easily hide most of the wiring from the instruments with trim. And one thing I've observed up here on the estate is that if the electrician does neat work like with conduit for instance - runs and verticals at precise angles - it nearly disappears into the building. Think the brain accepts it more. Or notices it less. Plumbing the same. So if they brought those wires over more neat and covered some of it where it was easy to, it'd look OK.

Thanks for the treat, C'pete!

[commanderpete]

Those pictures are from an Alerion on Yachtworld. More pictures there

http://yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?currency=USD&units=Feet&checked_boats=1432875&slim=quick&

There's another one for sale

http://yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?currency=USD&units=Feet&checked_boats=1372524&slim=quick&

Yep, that's Jimmy Buffet's boat. Life is good.

I sent Jimmy an e-mail to see if he wanted to take me out for a sail. Haven't heard back yet.

A few weeks ago I was up in Oyster Bay, New York sailing on a friend's boat. I sent Billy Joel a note telling him to meet me there. He never showed.

First I checked his boat "Alexa" then I checked his boat "Vendetta"

Even sailed past his house to see if he was waiting on the dock

Screw him

[Bill]

The Alerion has an interesting take on the bulkhead between the main saloon and the forecabin.

[ebb]

Is very appealing - a wide 'soft' asymetric opening tastefully outlined in teak. Could inspire Ariel skippers to nearly the same openess in a remodel with a compression post of stainless or wood. (Would need to make step for the post which may only require altering the stepup V=berth sole to build it in. May be able to make enough of a pad to spread the load over the keel and to the hull - the width of the aisle between the berths.) There's no reason imco that the compression post has to be exactly under the center of the mast. Add a privacy curtain for the commode.

Alerion must have a liner in the V=berth for such a clean antiseptic look. But Ariel's stringers provide a support for more interesting shelves and even lockers. One could find an insulating glue-on fabric liner material that would cozy up the exposed hull.

Alerion is a very strange word. It is a heraldic term signifying singular or plural eagles that have no beak or talons -ie symbolic of wounded or depowered magnificence. It has a strong poetic ring, for sure - until I looked it up I thought it was the name of a famous roman general or gladiator. Better that it were, don'tcher think? :rolleyes:

[mbd]

Funny the bulkhead thing came up. I ran across these pictures the other day and was going to post them on the Enclosed Head? (http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?t=882) thread. But then I thought, why beat a dead horse? And I thought, this topic has been covered. But then, it sort of came up again. So here they are... An Island Packet 26. True, it DOES have 2 1/2 feet more beam, but Ebb and Tony are at least 2 1/2 times more creative than the IP designers!

[mbd]

...looks like they've got too much room in that head anyway.

What was this thread about again? Oh, coamings. The Island Packet 26 has those too.

:D

[Tony G]

[QUOTE=ebb]Have to sit sideways to haul on the line. What convenience! QUOTE]

It's a Hinckley DS42. There's no hauling here fella. Push button self-tailers. The main sheet incorporates a 'ram' below the cabin sole for ease of control. I'm envisioning Thirsten Howell III patting his sweaty brow with a bundle of hundreds.

[ebb]

The IP 26 is a salty lass. 20 year old used ones are going now for what they were new, around the mid 30 thousand range. Twenty years ago that was luxury, today the same bucks can barely get you a decent pickup.

The head in the packet looks like a gloomy backroom in a furniture store. They wouldn't have a shower in there, could they?

Comparing the 3 vessels: the Island Packet is like Wagner,
the Alerion is like Mozart,
the Ariel is like a bassoon in the back of the orchestra.

Nice coamings. Ariel's imco are adequate for style and regattas. Soimething would have to be done to live with them. Canvas backs or a padded rail methinks.

[Al Lorman]

Short of buying the IP, you might try this:

[ebb]

That's the idea!
Corse I was thinking of cheap pipe insulation from Home Debit.

Made from closedcell, they'd be a good safety device too. Maybe with another color than white as part of the cover.

[Al Lorman]

Ebb:

The photo is from Bottomsiders.com, and they'll make it in one of six colors for $53 each. Ouch.

Al

[Bill]

The cockpit cushions in Maika'i are Bottom Siders (mid - 1980's vintage, while the company was still in the SF Bay Area). I'm sure they would build you a set that fit over the coamings just as that one does the sternrail. Of course, if you plan to sail to the South Pacific, why not just head out downwind or on a very broad reach and avoid the issue? :p

[commanderpete]

No more coamings and hard benches

The future, my friends, is the cockpit couch

[frank durant]

Just add a coffee table,tv/dvd and remote and you'd be good to go !! A nice breeze,glass of wine on the table and CNN on the tube to keep ya up-to-date....what else could you ask for??? heh Ebb...looks like enough room out back for that hot tub you've been contemplating , just to finish it off.

[commanderpete]

What more could you ask for?

A water slide

[commanderpete]

Actually, I would like a Fighting Chair

[frank durant]

That would make perch fishing easy now wouldn't it !! I didn't notice a drink holder on the chair....a MUST !!