Cockpit Drains Revisited

[cjackson]

I know this topic has been covered in several other threads, I just wanted to get some feedback on my particular issue with Hull 387. My forward drains are run to seacocks (which are not properly installed and will be replaced or filled in at some point) and I'd like to know if this is even "safe". They appear to be below the waterline, which raises some trepidation if I ever take on some big water in the cockpit.
I plan to install aft drains and run them out to the transom at some point, and I wonder if I shouldn't do something to change the arrangement of these when I do that? Perhaps elbow toward the aft and run a length of pipe to a rear exit? Or is it possible that this configuration is "ok" and I'm just a worry wart? My concern is hydraulic forces when the hull "see-saws" forcing water up into the cockpit, and/or preventing it from draining after taking a shot from a rogue wave...the other concern is perpetually having seacocks in the open position that could potentially cause a flooding risk.
Does anyone else have this current set up in place on their hull, and if so what effects have you seen...or if anyone has suggestions on modifications, I'd love to hear them...

Thanks,
Chris

[ebb]

Hope somebody has pics of a proper install to post here. Scott...?
You might try the SEARCH mode in the bar above.

Your pic shows a dead wrong install with a ball cock and what looks like above waterline sanitation hose. Imco only black rubber heater/type marine hose (or better) should be used where a thruhull is below the waterline.

If you are going to use bronze for thru-hull and SEACOCK make sure the two pieces come from the same maker. Grocco, I think, supplies a set. 338 will be installing Marelon.

[Bill]

. . .My forward drains are run to seacocks . . . and I'd like to know if this is even "safe". . . . is it possible that this configuration is "ok" and I'm just a worry wart? My concern is . . .a flooding risk.

The only difference to your drains is that the original factory installation did not include seacocks. Yes, this is "safe," but adding drains at the aft end of the cockpit might be a good idea for one planning an ocean crossing. That said, the stock arrangement has made a number of ocean crossings without a problem. Zoltan's Commander (see thread Commander in Greece) even used the open engine well as an effective cockpit drain!

[PS - further "searcing" on this subject is recommended ]

[mbd]

Here are a couple of my survey pics of the port side cockpit drain. The second shows where the sink drain is tied in at the hull.

I have to add a couple of drains in the after part of my cockpit before the boat goes back in the water - it's either that, or plumb my cockpit hatch to a through hull. But I'm thinking I'll try and drain those from the transom...

[ebb]

Don't believe that hose should be used for any below waterline connection, unless there is a seacock. (A ballcock is not a seacock.) Putting drains in the back of the cockpit is a problem as the distance between cockpit and hull is so short. Because this is an inaccessable area hoses should not be used. Even an access hatch would not get you a good look at corner drains. The rudder tube would also limit access - but it's not a bad idea to have access via a hatch into this area. Might consider it mandatory if you have an inboard or have made it difficult to get back in there with cabinetry in the cabin.

Better would be vertical drains going thru the rear bulkhead and then thru the transom. Since the function of the extra (oversize) drains would be to empty the cockpit quickly, they can be reasonably above the cockpit deck, letting the forward drains empty the cockpit completely.

The cockpit in the Ariel HANGS unsupported into the space it occupies. Hose has to be used for all cockpit deck drains because of movement and flex.

[mbd]

Better would be vertical drains going thru the rear bulkhead and then thru the transom. Since the function of the extra (oversize) drains would be to empty the cockpit quickly, they can be reasonably above the cockpit deck, letting the forward drains empty the cockpit completely.

Nice idea Ebb. I hadn't thought of doing it this way. If warm weather ever gets here and I can start my spring projects, I'll have to mull it over in earnest while I'm on the boat.

How about an aft drain in the floor with a 90 degree elbow out the stern - everything glassed in? My concern is rain water etc., not so much boarding seas. With the stern squatting the way it does, I need to drain the pooling water in the aft of the cockpit before it rises enough to reach the cockpit hatch.

Thanks, as always, for the great input.

[ebb]

thanks Mike,
The cockpit tilts forward (toward the bridge deck). That should be enough?
The cockpit deck is also molded so that water flows along its edges right to the drains. The problem is debris might stop them up when the boat is sitting.

388's straight-thru drains are a problem - but if you want to sacrifice some volume capability there are flapper and floating ball valves that could used to control backflow. May also have an annoying noise problem if water is popping against exit holes at or near the waterlevel. Don know about THAT yet!

Sure, could put in a rt angle and run it back. But if you still have the gascan deck in the lazarette yer in for a nice surprise.

But while we're supposing, we could run drains out the side of the boat from the cockpit along the rear bulkhead, they'd be in the lower corners of the seat risers, going thru level so that they exit above the waterline or angle them down onto the boottop like the glassed-in deck scupper that came with the boat. These up-scuppers would never get clogged. (If you are upgrading this is one bulkhead that could use a layer of glass and epoxy - on BOTH sides.) And the same method as the factory deck drain glassed to the hull could be used along the bulkhead. Could use the rt angle here (but why?) or use a sweep.*

*If someone was going to put in (let's call them) emergency oversize drains sideways out thru the lower corners of the seats - the stuff to use would be pvc pipe, let's say 2" ID. Substantail scuppering. PVC can be heated with the heat gun or torch and bent - so you could make the jog over to the bulkhead without a fitting and epoxy it on, with a lot of filler and a layer of matt. Now, whether you'd use a thruhull on the hull is a choice of complication or simpl;icity. Always think of a thruhull as a maintenance item, so simple is the way for me. I would do it like the Pearson deck scupper, use a lot of matt and epoxy and build up a substantial and very waterproof support for the pvc tube as it butts against the hull. No pvc thru the hole. Might work. If I'd thought about this earlier, might have done it.



That would keep the transom looking better. The boat tilts a lot, so the water WILL run out!!

[mbd]

The cockpit tilts forward (toward the bridge deck).

Definitiely not in my case. With the inboard and lead pig or whatever that is in the bilge, the water collects in the stern and the forward drains are practically useless. That said, I'm toying with relocating the batteries, and removing the pig thing, so my current water line is in a sort of flux. Still, more drains can't hurt.

[ebb]

Mike,
Have you thought about redistributing weights so that the boat floats on her lines?
Bill posted once vertical measurements from the bow and stern down to designed waterline.
Settees and the cabinsole are almost certain to be on a waterline so you can check with a carpenter's level inside the boat.

If you got pigs in your sump under the companionway, maybe you should get the lead out...?*

Might find the factory waterline incised into the gelcoat.
Gotta get it floating proper.
Is there something else going on?

*sorry to be vague, Mike, but it was you on another thread that had no sump, wasn't it? No, it was somebody else, I remember a discussion on how to lift it out.... Chop that hunk o lead out, has to be held in with practically nothing. 338 came to me with one hunk (40#?) with an iron eye in it, shaped to fit into the bottom of the sump. Was lucky some DFO hadn't glued it in.

[Bill]

Keel void discussion moved to keel void thread: http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussi...read.php?t=604