Anybody know about caning/louvers?

[Tony G]

I've been giving much thought as to how to finish out the interior on board 113. After much thinking, looking, drawing (CAD impaired, I) we're pretty well nailed down as far as what goes where. Sure, there will be plenty of '$#!#-'never thought about that! going on, but largely we're headed in one direction. From this point it will be South and East!

With so much to learn I was looking for some input from others that have experience in two areas (today). I am humina-humina over caned door inserts on a teak or mahogany frame. But louvered doors may be quicker to produce and hold up to the unintentional abuse of a somewhat klutzy person like me. Do any of you Captians/wood workers/craftsmen-uh-persons have experience with installing cane or making louvers? I'm looking for good 'how to' advice or directions of where to look. Naturally I have perused Tim Lackey's site for the caning but he has a knack of making everything look simple. I have tons of teak and mahogany pieces, a relatively decent shop and tons less money so I'd prefer to 'make' rather than 'buy'. Oh yah, we're kinda short on time too so a class at the local trade school is out...

P.s. Work on 113 should resume May 22 THIS YEAR!!! After two long, grueling, demeaning years of boat abstinance.

[Bill]

A quick Google search might help on the caning -- but watch out for corporal punishment sites! For example, this site has all you need . .

http://www.refinishfurniture.com/cat_cane.htm

[ebb]

Check out
48' Hinckley H-48 Yawl
Thistle
yachtworld.com
nl.yachtworld.com/boats/1754124/0

Maybe somebody knows how to borrow a couple pics from this fabulous traditional Tripp yacht showing the cane doors.

[mbd]

P.s. Work on 113 should resume May 22 THIS YEAR!!! After two long, grueling, demeaning years of boat abstinance.

Woo hoo! Does this mean we get to see some more TonyG interior pics, layouts, etc.? I'm marking my calendar!

[Tony G]

Ah, those guys at Rockler...you must have missed the comment about not much money, huh Bill? My dad and I drool over all the stuff we don't really need, really would like to have, and have no idea what 'its' for every time he gets a new catalog from them. Thanks for the lead though.

Dang it, Ebb! I thought I had resigned to the fact that louvers were the way to go then you throw a thorough bred like the H-48 at me. One of my favorite NAs and one of my favorite 'yacht' builders. Hey, have you checked out the Cherubini 44 and 48? Schwing!!!

I guess my fear of the supposed inherent weakness of cane doors is somewhat based in ignorance given the fact that it is used for chair seats. The weakness may exist, though, due to the level of expertise, or lack there of, in furniture building. However, these are very small panels so they should be plenty strong. Lets see if I can remember how to attach something...if we only had a burnt umber crayola...

[ebb]

Tony, NIZE drawings!

I think loovers would be a PITA to varnish. I think they are more of a problem to make too.

Afterall, you make a frame door for sheet caning with a simple routed groove for the spline. Knowing me, I would consider putting the spline on the show side of the doors like we see on cane chair seats. For looks.
Of course, you can put the cane on the inside, which may protect it a bit more.

My cheat in the design of doors like yours (and mine too if I ever get to it) would be to have a middle cross bar to help stiffen the frame. Just run the cane over the crosspiece. I usually break rules when I can - if the frames are fairly lite in section (3/4" stock max) I would consider gluing them up with simple lap joints in the corners using epoxy. Crosspiece would be a 1/4 lap let's call it.

So if there's any tension created when you spline in the sheet cane the cross piece will help keep the door panel square. Kind of tacky maybe if you look at that way. Any rounded tops could be straight across inside, canceling out any short grain in an actual curved top piece. The splining groove could make the requisite curve on the top (to lighten the door in appearance) While the straight across inside would add beef.*

I don't think the extra wood would show - depends on whether you use the traditional chair bottom pattern or the open weave 'modern' cane.
Could always paint the inside cross pieces flat black to help them visually disappear.

Designwise the cane way has a lighter look than louvers, which are solid maybe heavy in appearance. Cane adds texture and is busy - someone might say. So in going with cane I'd go with the smallest stuff we can find, since the Ariel is so small, smaller sections of things and small textures will help the inside feel larger.

So if I went with louvers, I'd go with mini louvers rather than clunky vanes. More horizontals rather than less. Just imco. Cane for me is somehow more casual than more formal furniture type louver doors.

HEY! Let's get our boats in the water!!!
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Eons ago, in another galaxy, I did some of this sheet caning. I had to practice a lot. The cane has to go in the groove with even tension, and not too much of it. And I would guess that we will have to seal the stuff once dry (with penetrating epoxy??) so it doesn't pick up moisture or loose it too readily either, pulling the door out of square. There's good reason why icecream parlor (Thonet) chair seats are round!

[Tony G]

Ebb,

The revised plan is to be in, on, and underway the fall of '09. Ready or not! The rat-race is taking too much of a toll on Tony. What do they say? Jump and the world will provide the net.

After doing a quick inventory of what tools remain I've decided to do louvers and I agree whole heartedly with you on the mini-sizing of the....slats? We don't have alot of time to dilly-dally learning a new skill like caning as easy as it is. Eh-really, I just have a surface planer, router table and a whole Ensign cockpit of teak to use up. So we're going with louvers like the Cabo Rico's have.

At first their design didn't appeal to me all that much. But then I started looking into what it would take to build traditional louvered doors. For some reason nobody seems to know of a jig or 'easy' method of fabricating what we commonly know as louvers. All of a sudden, Shazam!! Those Cabo Rico doors looked intriguing and, dare I say, sexy. Plus they look as good on the inside of the door as they do on the face.

Huh? Varnish? I will varnish them, if at all, prior to assembling the doors with an HVLP set-up belonging to my uptight finish carpenter friend. That sould take care of the PITA. Does one really need to varnish teak if its on the inside? We have an O'Day with teak in the cabin that appears to be naked. I kinda like the looks of that too. The Ensign cockpit, however, looked pretty bad. A pass or two through the planer and the pieces looked beautiful, allbeit thinner. Still plenty of wood left for strength though.

Take a look at them doors...

Cheers,