Ditto that Tim! But, at least you didn't suffer a catastrophic failure or anything. Especially surprising since you ground it all down and had a close look at it!Originally Posted by commanderpete
BTW, beautiful sunset picture!
Ditto that Tim! But, at least you didn't suffer a catastrophic failure or anything. Especially surprising since you ground it all down and had a close look at it!
BTW, beautiful sunset picture!
Mike
Totoro (Sea Sprite 23 #626)
Very true and that is why I'm bummed but not not distraught. The boat sailed beautifully and everything worked as planned except for the rudder.
Tell me about it. It was damp when I removed the laminate and if it were damp for ten years or more under the laminate creating an anaerobic environment in which dry rot occurs then it is logical that the mahogany would have lost some strength. It did look fine and solid, but it would have only taken a relatively small area to be compromised in just the right spot to create the situation that was created. I hope to fashion some sort of temporary repair so that I can do some more sailing. I knew putting the boat in this year after its long slumber would be a crapshoot and knew the potential of fighting such demons. I envisioned an annoying leak, or some rigging issues where something would need to be replaced, maybe even some electric poltergeists, but the rudder I didn't tink would be a problem especially after what it looked like. Oh well, 45 years of life with 35 years of service it did its job and I suppose doesn't owe anyone anything. The good news is that the epoxy-work I did on the rudder shoe and strap area has created a waterproof situation and after removing the shoe this fall it should be a staright forward repair.
Remember the good old days...
Good luck with your rudder repairs Tim. I'll be out of touch for a week and, sadly, away from the boat (gasp!) and am looking forward to lots of pictures and a clever "fix"...
Mike
Totoro (Sea Sprite 23 #626)
Can we see a forensic of the actual break?
And, please, how did it happen, again?
Post 157 explains it in greater detail, but in a nutshell I sailed her hard in 15-20 knot winds for two hours and I noticed a greater amount of play in the tiller the closer we got to our destination. When we went around the corner into Essex Bay to anchor the tide and wind were opposing each other but not in a consistent manner making it challenging to achor. We anchored and I set the tiller so that the boat would ride on the anchor without wrapping which is a common occurance where we were. The yacht club I am member of calls it the "Essex Wrap". With a lengthened wind gust we wrapped around our anchor rode which put an enormous amount of strain on the rudder and that's when we heard it crack. The tiller wne tloose and I immediately knew what had happened although I didn't know to what extent the damage was until later that day when we were back at our mooring. I was relieved to see that the top part of the rudder broke and that it appeared to be about 75% there which will give me a nice place to fabricate a repair from. I didn't dive down to get a better look I was just pearing down from the tender with a mask.
As far as the repair goes, I am trying to make a cheap adequite repair that will get me through the next two months of fair-weather sailing. Our cruising plans are to stay close to home and maybe do a couple 3-5 hour jaunts down or up the coast, but not venture too far from home and to certainly not push the boat as I have no real specs to go by for the integrity of this repair. On paper it looks Macgyverish enough to work, but for how long?
I will post lots of pictures for everyone to see. Close-ups of the damage, repair, etc. so that we have on this site an archived detail of a rudder failure. The repair will consist of a galvenized steel water pipe with a threaded elbow at the end on which another short piece of galvenized water pipe will be will be threaded into place. That short piece will act as the lateral piece that transfers the movement of the shaft (new vertical pipe) to movement of the blade. The threads will be glued together with epoxy and I might put a small amount of cloth around the elbow because I'm not sure how much strength this will actually have because this fitting was not designed for such an application. I also do not want the fitting to become unthreaded by the twisting motion of the tiller and resistance on the blade. The remaining piece of origianal rudder that is still there will be cut so that the lateral pipe rests on it evenly. I have copper strapping that I will then put over the top of the pipe and will screw it down to the original piece still there. This will hold it in place and provide some strength which will be needed to be able to move the rudder. I will then take two thin pieces of plywood that I cut out to match the original piece that is now missing and sandwhich over the lateral pipe being sure to leave a healthy lip over the remaing original rudder. I have four stainless bolts with large fender washers that are going to clamp this together. I am also going to screw in a bunch of galvenized screws into the two pieces of plywood from both sides because the resin holding the plywood together will surely be inadequite and the wood is going to want to seperate in a short while. The screws will mechanically hold the ply pieces together even if the resin dissolves. This should create a reapir that will be adequite to do some light sailing. I spent $38 at home depot the other night and I think I have everything I need to perform the repair. If it does work I saved my sailing season for less than 40 bucks. If it doesn't work, oh well, at least I had a cool problem to wrap my brain around and someone will know what not to do if this happens to them.
Feel free to light this idea on fire or blow it out of the water as I plan to do the repair Tuesday and have time to change course. This winter when I fabricate a new rudder from scratch it will be very strong and well made.
Last edited by Tim Mertinooke; 06-30-2007 at 02:13 PM.
rudder incident
Gee, Tim,
With the 'essex wrap' a constant
sounds like you guys should have a spare rudder, or two, ready to whip on after your anchoring events.
OK, it sounds like you got the anchor rope over the top of the rudder and the forces pulled it down and across at an angle - breaking off the 'top' of the rudder blade. This being a regular occurance is mind boggling.
And since there is opportunity here in the design of the Ariel rudder, there is the possiblity that the rudder shaft got bent!!! Or that the rudder tube got compromised at the hull join. Might have a crack.
An immediate thought is to cut the top of the repaired rudder at an angle so that THE WARP WILL SLIP AND NOT HANG UP ON THE TOP OF THE RUDDER. Seems actually like a shippy thing to do in this case.
We did talk about breakaway rudder tops and bottoms. The negative slope on the top of the rudder could be replaced with a small 'block' of high-density PVC (Divinycell) carved fair with the rudder - bringing the top back to its usual form. Maybe you could get it to stay with polysulfide, but you'd probably have to epoxy goop it on. Thing is, it would act as a a breakaway and give you your hydrodydamics and be easily replaceable. Wouldn't fill it or paint it.
Or just leave the top of the rudder sloped down and see what it actually does to your sailing efficiency.
Sounds like you people are normally anchoring in the middle of a maelstrom. Couldn't the situation be controlled better with a bow AND stern anchor?
But of more concern is
you are saying that the tiller had more play in it as the day progressed. You, ofcourse, have replaced the sleeve/O-ring bearing at the top of the rudder tube. (?) You can get the replacement right here at the Association Store at cost. Worth every penny. It'll will cure a loose rudder shaft that has play in it and allow you to 'feel' the water again.
There could be other issues at the top of the rudder like with your tiller fitting.
See that the 'clamp' screw is functioning and that the key hasn't deteriorated in the key way. Or that the tiller fitting is in it's proper position and everything is snug.
By the by,
for those attempting to drop their rudder for the first time,
you should slip the sleeve bearing up and out of the rudder tube befor you attempt to lift and move the rudder over to drop it past the shoe.
Jury repairs are always interesting and instructive. Looking forward.
Last edited by ebb; 07-01-2007 at 07:30 AM.
Anytime you have opposing forces that are not equal but alternate in strength (wind gust, lull, etc) the makings are there for a swing which brings the potential for a wrap. The Merrimack river where I keep my boat has a strong current and ten foot tides and keel wraps happen at the moorings too. When I worked at the yacht club in college I would see it occur a half dozen times a season in our mooring field. I can't see this being a uniquely New England thing though. Anywhere there is current and wind it should occur if the current and wind battle for superiority. In Essex it happens during a tide change when there is an oppposing wind and due to the bay's location, size, and topography it isn't uncommon. It isn't usually a major event, just an annoyance as I have experienced in the past. If you were a powerboat which is the majority of vessels frequenting this place due to the shallow nature of the entrance you would just go in circles. A fin keel of a sailboat can get in trouble as the rode can make it between the skeg or spade and the keel itself. I have seen people really gt themselves into a bind (literally) this way. A full keeled sailboat allows the rode to slip right off with some help in getting it moving the opposite direction it wrapped, but if the forces are strong enough, the tension is significant and the rode is against the rudder causing it to go hard to one side and the rudder itself is bearing the brunt of the force. Not ideal, especially for a piece of mahogany shrouded in FRP for 35 years. What made my event interesting and different from other experiences I have had there was the strength of the wind and how gusty it was. When a blalance was met, the rules changed as the wind strength changed. This is what put a lot of strain on the rudder which caused the failure. I have anchored there many times without incident, but like I mentioned before, if there is a tide shift or a wind shift that causes the opposing forces, it can happen. Some certainly do anchor bow and stern and I had my spare anchor in the dinghy and planned to set it before we headed into the beach where I wouldn't be able to stop this from occuring, but it happened less than 5 minutes after we anchored. In hindsite, I should have set the stern anchor earlier, or kept tention on the rudder for a little bit with the mototr in revrese as I assesed the anchoring conditions better, maybe I should have gone up river a little farther to find a possible lee closer to shore. It's always 20/20 isn't it? On a lighter day it would have been a slow event that would have been fixed as it was happening or worst case I would have gotten in the dinghy afterwards to fix it then set the stern anchor. The speed of the current and wind that day was what did it. Live and learn. May others watch my experiences and learn from them. These are the stories that live on and we drink beer over and laugh at in the future.
I checked the tube and did not see any problems, but I will certainly check things again once I head out Monday night.
That is a good idea. Instead of having the rudder go all the way to the hull, have a gap of some sort that rode or some other entanglement could go to. This would put the force on the shaft which would be a llowed to bend just a small amount, but would avoid that same force on the rudder.
No, but we do have Old Sow which is the largest whirlpool in the western hemisphere up there in Maine.
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