I Need Info On Galvanized Steel Hardware

[eric (deceased)]

Has Any One Out There In A/c Land Ever Used Galvanized Turnbuckles,galvanized Wire Or Other Types Of Likewize Fittings....I Dont Want To Spend 27 Bazillion Dollars On Stainless Steel Wire At This Time.If so how well does it hold up to the marine environment.I am currently planning on rerigging a boat with 1/4 (7x19)inch galvanized steel wire(atleast it says "aviation grade" on the spool) and I already got one of those nico-press hand held swaging tools that seems to be real beef.this boat(1967 wayfarer 29) is like a blank canvass that needs to be completely re-rigged.nothing on this boat is original.Its like a 500 piece jigsaw puzzel with 300 pieces from other puzzels and 300 pieces missing.do the math.I have seen all sorts of galvanized steel advertized in marine catalogues but never really used it much.before you say anything just remember that there are some entire boats made of steel.......

[Mike Goodwin]

Can I take a life insurance policy on you?

It can be used , but like in old times it has to be wormed, served and parceled to last any time at all. It corodes from the inside out where the coating is worn off and water gets in .

[ebb]

eric,
Did it once with korean trawl wire rope that came galvanized and tarred. 1/4" is too small for worming but did find old fashion black cloth electric tape for parceling and tarred nylon serving which came from Coast Marine on Fishermans Wharf in S.F.

However, my spars then were spruce. So leathered soft eyes were made to match the eye splices at the turnbuckles and the shrouds were served full length with a flying mallet ala Brion Toss. That was the fun part and I remember it got smoking and went on so tight that the wire rope became stiff.

Going this route is a whole kettle of fish. If you don't know yore splicing too good and have to learn it all it's a long way, and a lotta time. But you'll be very cool on rigging, feel real salty, and smell of stockholm tar. You'll have a whole kit of leather, thread, palms, needles, fids, thimbles, wax and so on!

There is no reason not to rig an Ariel all galvanized. I'd guess all parts are still out there. I would buy wire only from a researched marine or fisherman supply. I lucked out on that trawl wire (Coast Marine), maybe it still can be found.

It was said in the old days that rigging prepared this way would outlast the ship. Never needed replacing. It was said. Maybe because each shroud was a work of art and took too long. Stainless has a finite use life, and you can never really trust it or the fittings. With spliced eyes you won't need no stinkin toggles either. There are offshore cruisers that won't rig with s.s. You, of course, have to get a copy of Brion Toss' Rigger's Apprentice. In fact that is where I would START.

**********************************************

Coast Marine and Industrial Supply - 415-873-1923 - 398 Jefferson St SF
www.comarsf.com
Still there amongst the T-shirt shops and restaurants! It is commercial fish but who knows, given the fish industry problems, they may be happy for anybody's business. They were always friendly to me. and I never smelled like a fisherman.

[Robert Lemasters]

The ocean and sea salt water marine environment is highly corrosive,and dangerous, far differant than the fresh waters of rivers and lakes I can tell you.In the old days sailing ships had crews of experienced men who worked day in day out inspecting, cleaning, repairing, replacing, making thier own rigging.At sea in the Navy we were always fighting corrosion, it was socking how fast things became corroded. In time nothing on a ship lasts forever, the bottom all too soon is fouled, rope decays, frays or becomes unusable (I need to replace some of the rope that I bought only a few years ago, tackle wears out, motors age, even synthetic resins will in time come apart (a very long time) and these days with so much being manufactured overseas in third world slave wage countries, things like marine grade stainless steel are being reprocessed from who knows what and how and by who. I will try my best to go with the tried and true,to do preventative maintanance, I will be prepared replace anything and everything, have back-ups.It is the only reason that I replaced my damaged aluminum and plexiglass portlights with solid bronze 1" thick glass portholes, not to be salty although I like the look, they were also used and cheap, but they are tried and true, made for the marine environment.There seems to be some rule at sea that never fails...anything no matter how small that is unsafe or not right will get you.

[ebb]

I bought the galv turnbuckles at a local marine supply then. Don't know who to trust? I see them on the online marine suppliers - Hammilton may be one. I would guess that offshore fishermen are pretty demanding requiring good safe stuff no matter who makes it. We are so global now that maybe the 'tried and true' is only history and flea markets.

As long as I had the boat there was no deterioration in any of the hot dipped galvy fittings - or the shrouds. And the tried and true method of worming parceling and serving, I think Mike pointed out once, was performed on ungalvanized wire rope. Of course the clipper ships used heavy cable, and maybe those rough tough ships didn't have a long life either. There is plenty anecdotal evidence (I don't mean the fallacious kind) however that shows the method works real well.

[epiphany]

I've heard (from Toss book/videos and from a couple friends - a boat builder, and a 2 time circumnavigator) the same as Ebb - that a galvanized rig, properly made and maintained, will last several times longer than a comparable stainless rig. The galvanized wire is "stretchier", able to take the shockes and stresses that standing rigging gets in a much better manner than comparatively "brittle" stainless wire. There is just a lot more work involved in getting it set up and keeping it in proper shape. Like Ebb, I think the best place to start making a galvy rig would be to get Brion Toss' "The Complete Riggers Apprentice" (which IMO is a must-have book if you have a sailboat, period) or a similar book which described how to not only make up the wire, but also describes some of the physical properties of the differing wire and fittings, as well as the geometry needed to figure rigging loads etc, in order to be able to properly size the rig for the vessel.

I've considered a galvy rig for Katie Marie, but think that instead I am going to use stainless wire with terminal fittings like Norseman/Stalock. Using those types of fittings allows one to make their own rig, they are stronger than swedges and give the overall rig more strength, and are also relatively easy to repair or make up in remote locations. Another thing I want to look into, as a safety/emergency alternative, is some of the new synthetic lines that are used in rigging (primarily for race boats). A coil of line as a back-up stay or shroud would be much more compact to stow than a coil of 1x19 SS wire.

[Robert Lemasters]

My first job out of high school was in a rope mill, Wall Rope, where I worked utill the draft got me. The old mill had been in existance sinse 1840, rope making was a skill and craft based on solid engineering, tradition and most importantly good quality materials, natural or synthetic. Wall Rope extrueded it's own synthetic fibers (where I worked) and our Q&A department tested everything to milspec and other government and industry standards. I doubt very much that foriegn companys that make rope are equal in anyway to the rope we made then, in fact I am sure of it. Most of the rope and I won't get technical that I have purchased recently would have been rejected for any of a dozen reasons. We made wire rope centers that were twisted into wire rope at the Robeling works (same co. that made the cables for the Brooklyn Bridge) that have lasted almost forever. I am not sure of galvanization or how that material keeps from rusting, I have seen galvanized things rust in the presense of salt water. I have some stainless steel fittings that have showed discoloration or oxidation but a little stainless steel cleaner seems to clear that up. I have never seen any sign of ozidation on stainless wire rigging though.

[eric (deceased)]

before I spend avogadros number (6.02x10tothe23rd)on stainless,I will pre-rig or pre-size all the standing in 1/4 7x19 galv.I will use nico press swages and thimbles.I will see how all this works for a season or so then depending on the out come (it has to last a little while at least)I will re-rig in stainless.I dont know if the 7x19 will stretch compared to 1x19.I will keep in touch and when its done will upload fotos.

[Mike Goodwin]

Learn to splice the wire , lot stronger than the Nicro , all you need is a metal fid .

[ebb]

Don't think that putting it off is the way to go.
You'll probably have to work just as hard putting a galv system together as one in 316L and bronze. You probably will have to get 1/4" 7X7 (for splicing) or 1X19 from England. It's probably made in the orient there too, but there is a strong traditional minded crowd that demands the best, so they have it made the best and import it. Not here. The korean trawl wire had a fiber core, but you should go with all wire on the Ariel's tighter rig.

Galv rope HAS to be parceled and served, it'll start rusting right away. Especially what you buy here. I believe you can only use nico on bare wire. What's the point? Escaping the country? Yer life depends on it.

Grit your teeth, the Toss book is kind of eclectic, the best book on wire splicing has yet to be written. But it's the best on rigging ever. Wonder if Hervey Garret Smith ever illustrated the art???

************************************************** **********************

For instance,
Are you planning to use the original bronze chain plates? How are you making the transition to galv to avoid corrosion? Might have to find bronze shackles to act as toggles. Then parcel and serve around the splice-eye and put in a bronze thimble and put it on to the shackle.

Or you could make some new chain plates out of iron and get them hot dipped galvanized.

[ebb]

Don't think that putting it off is the way to go.

[eric (deceased)]

I have had to put new chainplates onthe side of the hull.they are 1/4 inch aluminum and are 10x12".the old hardware is nonexistent along with the where they are supposed to go.at 49cents per foot I bought a 500 foot spool af 1/4" 7/19 and several dozen stainless steel thimbles.this will just be a temporary trial to see how long they should be.I have never had the mast up,and I have to repair it yet beforeI can do anything.

[ebb]

Golly gee.
May the gods
smile upon ye.
believe you got
a battery.

[Bill]

Ted Brewer in the Jan/Feb 2006 edition of Good Old Boat has a very informative article on standing rigging (p.17). He begins with the following questions asked by boatowners:

"One of the questions was the advisability of switching over to the newer, more corroision-resistant, type 216 alloy stainless-steel wire. Another delt with the benefits of increasing the wire diameter from 1/4 inch to 5/16 inch . . . In both cases, my reply was, 'don't do it.' The reasons are simple but perhaps not obvious . . ."

Check it out.

[eric (deceased)]

I will check it when I get the chance.too many health problems to be concerned at this time but it is up and coming