Deck finish?

[Patrick Sullivan]

Hello all -
This is my first post here, and happy to see such a great support group for these boats. I grew up on this boat, and am starting the process of restoring her.
My Commander has the pale green deck color, and the foredeck has faded to the point that the brush strokes from the application are visible. Does anyone know the best way to remedy this so it will:
A: Not lose the non-skid surface (I like the basket weave pattern)
B: Match the existing color
C: Last another 39 years (I hate to add one more thing to redo every couple of years. )

Look forward to your replies.

[Bill]

For much on non-skid, click on the search button at the top of the page and enter non-skid into the window. Lot's of discussion.

As for color restoration, I think you may be looking at painting . . .

[commanderpete]

First you have to remove all the deck hardware. Overdrill the holes and fill with epoxy.

During this process, you're likely to find some wet core. The extent of the core repair will pretty much determine what you can do with the non-skid. If you need to open up the deck, all the basketweave will have to be ground off so the deck matches the repaired areas.

Hope for the best.

I just think you shouldn't make a cosmetic repair until you're sure the structure below is in good shape. Waste of time. I've learned that the hard way.

Cheers

[Patrick Sullivan]

I'm hoping not to have to go there - there is a 2' round soft spot in the fore deck, but I think this is related to impact vs. a wet core - The rest of the deck and cabin are rock solid.
Out of curiosity, has anyone ever considered using a spray on polyurethane coating like "Rhino" truck bed lining? It is "permanent", available in custom colors and non-slip textures, and pretty much bullet proof. (No, I'm not a salesman, just saw it on a truck and wondered how well it would work for replacement decking.)

[commanderpete]

Should work.

Some guy on the internet (cant remember where) said he had good luck using this stuff on his boat.

http://www.polycoatings.com/m22uv.htm

[Greg]

Regarding the "Rhino" type deck coating...I was wondering the same thing. I have no more non-skid on the deck at all and that stuff looks like a good replacement. It's used on some pretty serious workboats and the like...some friends used it to line the bed of a fire truck back home. It appears to be reasonably priced: about $100/gal. or so. Somebody out there has to have used it on a sailboat, right ?

[marymandara]

Another good (and relatively inexpensive) way to lay new nonskid is this:

Thoroughly abrade the remains of the old basket-weave with a cup brush in your 4-1/2 or 5" grinder. Go carefully and lightly to avoid digging a hole or a 1/2 moon here and there.

Wipe it back well with solvent. If possible, wash with soap and water with a stiff scrub brush, rinse well and let dry thoroughly first.

Mask off the nonskid areas, or rather the adjoining deck area. You want to use 3M fineline tape, the blue plastic kind(--not the cheapy greenish stuff or the regular crepe type tape! You'll be sorry! ). Burnish the tape down tight with your thumbnail. Extend your masking as needed with 3M LongMask, AKA "Blue Tape".

Working in sections at a time, mix up silica and epoxy resin to a fairly stiff mayo or warm Jif peanutbutter consistency. Use the fastest hardener you dare. Trowel it out onto the deck surface with a bondo spreader and get it as uniform as you can.

As it starts to gel, roll over it with a texture roller as used for decorative interior paint to bring up the texture. You will want to stand by as the stuff goes off ready to tip it up some more as it often sags down just before it kicks off due to the heat generated.


This yields a nice looking and very aggressive nonskid surface. You may want to sand it down somewhat to make it less sharp.
I've also seen this done with a texture roller and gelcoat, which would be less costly yet.

This can look very nice if you are vigilant to make sure that it gets tipped up well and make it match all over the boat. One drawback is the number of texture rollers you may go through. The finish, depending on the roller, will vary from a factory-produced-looking sailboat to a commercial workboat. The coarser it is, the more aggressive a nonskid surface you will have. Also, if you err on the coarse side you will be able to repaint as needed in the future without filling your pattern in too much and losing effectiveness.

---------------------



A second method to the first is similar but uses polycarbonate granules. Finding 'em is the trick...System Three used to seel the stuff as a nonskid paint additive, but they no longer do. I found a source for the stuff but it came only in 50-pound sacks, which is a lot of material and a lot of money. Probably available as a nonskid paint additive at a hardware store for all I know...the stuff you would want looks about 1/2 the size of rocksalt, or about like the flake size of unrefined baking sugar.


The prep for this differs somewhat in that the basketweave needs to be sanded off smoooth and fair...otherwise pretty much the same.

Cut the bottom out of a 5-gallon bucket and use it as an inner sleeve to allow you to put a trash bag in your shopvac and not have the bag suck up around the filter.

Put the granules in a quart can and poke a bunch of holes in the lid like a salt shaker. ( A Commander should take about 4-5 quart cans full, BTW.)

Again working in sections, roll out a coat of unthickened epoxy resin on the deck, then shake mightily. Apply what looks like WAAAYYYY too much, make it look like a big pile of sugar all over the place. Let stand overnite, then use the shopvac and the snorky-brush attachment to remove the loose excess which you can then recycle out of the sack-in-a-vac and into the shaker can.

This method yields a more "molded" looking surface, once painted it looks "factory", albeit not "factory" to an older Pearson boat. Very Sharp looking! As soon as a couple dyas have gone by and you know it is fully cured, scrub with a stiff brush and running water, then let dry well and get to painting! Remember, bare epoxy does not tolerate or hold up to UV's very well!

Also, it is best to carefully score around the pattern with a razorblade before you go to pulling the tape. Don't skip this part.

Best,
Dave

[ebb]

Wow, talk about RESOURCE!

There is an impractical method that I haven't read of anybody's actual experience of actually doing, which is to make a rubber mold of the basket weave on a good section of the deck, fill the mold with (vinyl ester?) gelcoat material and stick it to the deck. Think I found this on the Endeavor forum site. Think it would be hard to do neat.

Also, there is/was an outfit that produced a gelcoat type basketweave or pyramid sheet in several patterns on a fiberglass scrim that you'ld cut to fit and glue to a prepared deck.

Last year stopped at a booth at the Expo to examine "The Marine Industry's Leading Non-Skid Coating" Ultra-Tuff
www.ultratuff.net
A waterbase non-hazmat single component acrylic urethane rubber that also uses recycled rubber crumbs for the nonskid.

There are a number of ready made color choices. I picked up a sample patch of a nice light beige. They have white and light grey also. The sample is definitely non-skid with an even no skip surface, and does not have a high profile. The surface is mildly aggressive non-crumblike and doesn't look like it would take your skin off if you fell on it. Like the idea that it's repairable (foredeck/cockpit,) storable, and usable out of the can - no pot life. 1 gal for 50 sq.ft., will need 2 coats at 25 mil each.

haven't used it yet, but it has my vote because of its pleasant surface appearance (more like polenta than granola.)

[marymandara]

My friend Tom used that on his Vega, and it has held up very well with only slight fading after about 5 years. I mean, he drags chain across it, right? Tough stuff! He bought his as a marine product for too much money but there apparently is no difference between the marine and the industrial product other than label and price.

My only concern--and why I'm not using it on my project--is that eventually it will go south like everything else does, and when it does it will no doubt be a horrible job to try and grind it off to replace. I do not know if you can coat over old with new, but if one could it would still be building up our old enemy, excess weight...and also leaves the question of what to do if the substrate was in poor condition.

My .02 for the day...

Dave

[ebb]

Tuffcoat says it's easy to repair a damaged area. Sand with 36 or 40 and reapply. If some is scuffed up, cut it out, bevel the edges and paint on some more. One year shelf life. Comes in quarts. too.

Not argumentative here. This thread has forced me to look more closely at this product - from the research side you understand, Your friend's experience with the product is as good as gold. Five years is a pretty good test!

Noticed they have a smooth version too. If the deck was solid, but questionable, seems to me you could mask the whole deck off from the cabin sides - paint on the smooth stuff, let it cure - then mask off the no-skid patterns of your choice and fill in with non-skid. Multiple coats would result in a waterproof deck, wouldn't you say? The first plain coats I think can be thinned with water to keep down the build up a little. Could look pretty good. Different colors, too.

Sure would ask my local civilian independant paint store to find the 'industrial' version for me BEFOR I looked for it at Royal Rip Off Marine!


The only practical question I can think of is whether the deck should be primed with something first. Imagine....an A/C without any leaks!

It would take somebody's experience, certainly: If you relegated the anti-skid to flat areas and bordered away from fittings, track, cleats and so forth, and if the stuff can be sanded down without grief after 5/10 years, then renewal would be a piece of cake.

PS in its new issue, June 2004, and in its usual (to me, of course) eccentric and protracted way completely ignores the independant company urethanes, testing only Interlux/Petit/Awlgrip/West Marine. Treadmaster as an alternative is mentioned ("a rather industrial, hard core look...") And, by golly, they will "discuss yet another deck refurbishment option - synthetic teak - in an upcoming issue. Stand by"

BUT, PS has invented THE method for testing antiskid which is a painted panel held a 45 degrees. Shoes, boots and bare feet on a wet, heaving, flooded deck is the MOST important issue, and the hardest to factor in. As with all things boat, opinion and compromise are the ruling factors. You'ld probably get the greatest traction with silicon carbide and the most comfort with rubber. For a while a French company made a glueon polyurethane sheet that was very pliable and held the foot very well at acute angles, so it was said. That would be my initial choice. Tuffcoat falls somewhere in the middle, hard but kindly. But no independant tests have been done.

Tuffcoat, Ultracoat, whatever the industrial version is called, is used on platforms like party catamarans, chicken processing plants, mail-truck steps and incline ramps. If Webb Chiles put it on his deck, or Geoff Fyldes, then I'ld listen real close.

[c_amos]

After a bunch of time spent in deck repair, I finally got it fair and ready to paint.

I had painted the side decks last year, and used the 'west marine' additive to make non-skid. It was never very aggressive, and has not worn very well. (will search the dock box to try to find exact product.)

I tried the 'sand' non-skid and early impressions are favorable.

I taped off the edges, and rolled a coat of epoxy over the deck. I then sprinkled sand into the wet epoxy. I did it this way rather then mixing it with the paint, as I wanted it to stick to the boat (not chip off with the paint).

I used regular beach sand that I washed, baked, and sifted.

I got two coats of primer on it, and one topcoat. It feels good, lots of traction, but not too agressive.

Of course after the first topcoat yesterday... it is wet and growing colder now so it may be a while before I can do anymore on it....