cutter conversion

[ebb]

Yes, well, and I have something for cutters

So I'll ask, maybe formally for the first time..


Has anybody considered a modest bowsprit for the Ariel?


What are the arguements against it?

FOR IT? ...thanks for any opinions on this!

[Mike Goodwin]

I have given it considerable thought;
If you set 2 headsails, my experience has been;
1) needs to be about a 6'sprit, to give a reasonable gap to haul the genoa thru, otherwise you will be going forward quite a bit to 'help' the fouled sail.
I know folks with a 5' sprit that have to roll the sail up partway to get it to tack without hanging.
2) the old headstay on the stem needs to be attached lower on the mast to keep the gap open.They don't need to be parralel , a 4' gap at the top would do.
3) this means you need to add running backstays to support the pull from that stay , otherwise it can bow the mast to the point of failure .

If you just want to get more sail forward for light air, a shorter sprit will do , but I find it to be a rather halfassed affair that is a real pain to try and tack .

[Tony G]

Ebb
Have you been looking at Richard Moot's Triton again I think that the Tritons with their fractional rig may lend themselves to cutter conversion more readily. That's just off the top of my relatively empty head though. Perhaps you've read the same paragraphs as I have, You know, praisng the cutter rig. I'm partial to them too but Mike has piqued my interest with this whole 6 knots in 6 knots business. I'll committ to some good preparation and foundational glass work but 113 will probably make her splash as a sloop first with everything in place for yawl rigging. Then again who really knows-I mean-I haven't even decided on a pattern for the window treatments yet

[ebb]

Mike, Tony----

A six foot bowsprit is a wild idea. You could fly a 250% genoa on it! Our cutaway bow might get pretty depressed tho.

Arguement pro the extra rigging might be: extra strength - setting the runners and a small staysail on the second stay in heavy weather would provide extra mast support.

Con might be the extra weight aloft and the weight over the bow.

My thoughts have gone to a short (two, two and a half feet outboard of the stem) s.s. pipe design in a tight loop rather than a spar. Might be lighter than wood.

Suppose the inner 'fractional' stay could be carried at the mast until wanted, then brought forward and clipped to the stem? I imagine that a staysail that hanks on to itself could be rigged so that a single halyard to a winch could set both stay and sail? Not forgetting runners, of course.

You know me, I spend my time under the cockpit rather than IN the cockpit with thw tiller under my arm. So let me ask:

Is there a definite conceivable advantage to carrying more sail in a wider foretriangle? Just for light air? Our type of hull gets serious weather helm in heavy air - so I read that on other similar underbody boats a sprit is added to 'correct' weather helm. I understand you don't want to create a boat that gets lee helm in light air. One that won't round up naturally into the wind.

You captains who find it more fun to sail than sweat an epoxy lamination: Have you an opinion, a feeling, an intuition about the Ariel sail plan in this regaard?

[marymandara]

David has some good articles on these very subjects in the Sail Design files of our newsgroup, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/engineless_sailing
I can say from experience that they all work a treat!
We are refitting our Triton right now to take off for a few years, but I really do miss Dave's old Ariel Commander...what lovely little boats!

Mary

[ebb]

Thanks, Mary, for the tip on David's (Commander 280) fledgling site! Just visited briefly while the tea cooled.

English cutters way back used reeving bowsprits with jibs on travelors. Great reading the ideas put forth on modifying the spinaker pole (right?) and running it back on a curved track at the side deck. And some fine stuff on light air sails that I'll have to get back to later! Great!...........

(and there's discussion on oars, oarlocks, and sweeps, as well.)