I'm having real trouble finding mahogony the right size to replace the rotted coamings on commander #179. I need about 14" of width at the widest point, and nearly 11' of length. My local yard can mill a couple of boards to this size, but at nearly $15 a foot all in(I'm in SF).
Another option is to get narrower boards and glue them together to get the necessary width. Has anybody done this? Opinions about strength, durability, looks, and where the joint should be?
thanks,
-- R
I did not "do it," but the coaming boards on #76 are made from two pieces of teak.
Mahogany comes wide, should not have any trouble finding it. McBeath, Hand Loggers, Mt Storm. Not cheap any more, especially Honduras, what you are looking for. Wide or narrow it's the same price, for 12 footers. But one never knows. Maybe find a deal. Just bought some teak & mahogany - they were the same price. About $15.
I've seen three Ariels (mine included) with the coaming split at the aft end in one piece original installations. Since the aft end is not supported it could easily get cracked by a foot or something. The front is supported by the rounded block (and the winch pad/block) on the Ariel - haven't seen a crack there in one piece boards. I would create a small block like the front one to support the aft end. Help keep the refit healthy.
Could possibly make an arguement that coamings glued together in strips butcher block style would make a stronger piece. Might be less likely to warp. Don't think mahogany is very warpable - it's stable. The other problem with glueing exposed wood is the glue line. Resorcinol makes a black line, gorilla glue has problems, brown glue is not really exterior, yellow #2, don't think I'ld trust my coamings to it, epoxy is out of the question. Just kidding about butcherblock coamings! Under 6-8 coats of varnish (LeTonkinois) thin black glue lines (Cascophen resorcinol) aren't really noticeable anymore under the amber bling.
If the lumber comes from the same tree, glueing up would not be too noticeable paying attention to the grain. Personally I would avoid it - it's more work and the result probably disappointing. Coamings will be looked at, I would spring for the full monty. Also find port and starboard boards from 'the same tree'. Same color and density. As much vertical grain as possible. Slab sawn is sometimes cheaper. You can find book matched boards at yards that sell to furniture makers. Or get an 8/4 piece and have it resawn. It is also possible to make a deal on bent pieces, which isn't what a tabletop guy wants. But you can pass them thru the planer and sander just fine. Coamings are 7' long, about 11" high, and at least 3/4" wide, wider is much preferred, like 7/8s. A single board 15-16' cut in half insures the coamings under varnish are familiar with each other. 8' boards at the yard may be easier to find. Sometimes Honduras is cut, rough milled, dried and shipped to the yard in 'log' form. It is possible to find 'butterfly/bookmatch' pieces in the stack. It would then be possible to have coamings with matching grain pattern on both sides with the same match as to light reflecting off the varnish.
The bigger the lumber yard, the better the deal. And selection. Good luck!
Last edited by ebb; 09-26-2016 at 08:52 AM.
Thanks for the tips -- I found some 14" wide boards at Van Arsdale, at about $100 a board, so no gluing, which I agree would have been a pain.
-- R
Fantastic!
Got spar spruce from them a 100 years ago.
And close-grain air dry redwood, purple as a plum.
And later, making decks, patio grade alaskan yellow cedar,
which never raises a splinter - some culls of mostly clear
I hope to mill and put in a bit of ceiling in 338.
The coaming boards on Ariel hull #330 were replaced by a previous owner with teak. The boards are single piece teak boards. Although they had been grey for some time and were growing lichen when I adopted my boat, they cleaned up nicely with a two part stripper and remain in fine shape with the use of Semco Teak Sealer, which also seems to work satisfactorily on the remaining mahogany hatch trim. I have done some other projects with teak. (I replaced the hand rails, replaced the hatch cover trim piece added a handle to the hatch trim piece, added boarding steps, and built pin rails). My Local lumber company stocks teak various lenghths and widths in one and two inch teak. If I had to do it again, I would use teak.
Scott
'Lo Scott,
Teak is the best, no compare.
What's your lumber yard down there?
I like the mahogany over the exterior teak - hands down. But teak looks nice on the inside, as long as it is oiled
But one other issue about laminating two boards - although your issue appears resolved. The glue line is most likely where rot will occur. On my coamings, where the big block at the forward end joins the boards is where the rot started and then went into the mahogany. For outside stuff, wher strentght is not an issue, use single boards. Forget gluing two together.
Hey, while we're on the subject....
Working on 5th coat of epifanes, fun fun fun. But worth it. Wow, do they look nice. Guess i was lucky, my wood is in great shape, coamings one piece mahogany. So a couple questions, which are pretty minor, but still questions.
Do i need to sand between coats now? It makes it easier to see where you have new varnish, but takes time ya know...
Also, need some wood plugs for the bolt and screw holes. Guess i just need to dig around and find a supplier, unless someone knows of one? Looks like 7 1/2'' for each side, and 3 approx. 3/8'' for the screw holes to the winch pads. (X2)Don't really want to buy them in bags of 50 or 100...
Also, when putting them back on, i guess the smart thing would be to put the sealer on the boat, then position the boards? Wondering how to go about it without making a mess on my new varnish!
Also have some sunbrella on the way for making some covers. Still looking for thread????Has anyone used velcro for holding them on? Don't really like the idea of snaps everywhere....
Also need to repair my main, must have pulled a little hard on the outhaul, as it has a tear on one side at the clew. It's several layers thick there, and still wondering what to do with it. Any experts in sail repair, help!
Guess that's about it for my current projects. Wish i had her back together, we'd go sailing! Nice monsoon here in the nw.
wet willie
Well compared to our prices here in Maine that teak is a steal, but the mahogany is about triple! 4/4 Honduras Mahogany is about 5.50 a b/f. When I replaced my coamings (I bought 12 foot boards, 14 inches wide, 4/4) the total was about 150.Originally Posted by ebb
Just picked up a board that was 17 feet by 6/4 by 10 or 11 inches wide (!! that's a big board!) which I'll be ripping down for my new toerail, and the price was 6.57/bf. We are lucky up here to have a really great hardwood dealer who caters to the boatbuilding trade, so I'm sure that helps especially with wide boards.
Teak, on the other hand, was running about 24 bucks a board foot last time I looked. OUCH!
Nathan
Dasein, Triton 668
www.dasein668.com
oh gee Bill, buy a bag or two, drill a few more holes.
What are they $2, $3 a 100? They're nice to have around, great conversation starters.
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Sealer?
Bedding compound, rubber goop? Put it on both surfaces evenly with a spatula, use too much you will have a lot of squeeze out.
Probably the best way for the first timer is to circle each screw hole with a bead - and run another bead across the top at deck level. If you are using Dolphinite cut the squeeze out off when a sets up.
With D. you can experiment. Spread it on, try the pieces, take it off, add some, scrape some off, put it back on, take it off, etc, til you get it right. Try that with Lifecaulk!
If you insist on glueing, you are on your own. Try to find a solvent that won't remove the nice varnish. If you are using clear rubber, you let it set and cut it off.
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You can get a special UV treated thread at a price that will last as long as Sunbrella, which is saying a lot. Normal polyester thread will fry in a couple years.
Cruisers have peel and stick repair patches for emergencys. Maybe you can add some round stitching with a needle and palm and some more of the special treated thread!
If I didn't have the special thread, I would find the waxed thread used for whipping, comes in tidy kits with mansized needles, and the palm, not to forget the palm, that's what I would do. Of course.
Sailrite.com has everything you could ever want or need to make or repair sails. Prices were relatively sane last time I dealt with them. I might be able to find an unused small spool of sturdy sail thread around here somewhere if you don't need a lot. Hand sewing is easy but the stuff is hard on machines that aren't made for heavy stiff thread.
Tom
Lo there Dasein,
That's incredible mahogany prices. Wonder what direct connection you guys hsve with Central Am up there. I'ld look around for the best stuff, buy a quantity, and store it like an investment. Real Honduras (so we hear) is becoming as rare as real teak.
I'm with Theis on mahogany for the exterior. Am I correct in thinking that Ariels originally came with M. coamings? That could influence my choice. And which method of harvesting is less destructive of the forest each wood comes from. I don't think there IS a difference any more.
We suppose that Honduras mahogany comes from plantation grown trees. That may explain the price difference. Plantation teak is so obvious a different wood than 'old' growth eveybody can recognize it. Wouldn't you think the widest boards are from old growth and therefor have the preservative and lasting qualities needed for boats.
Teak and mahogany are a dream to work with. They can't be characterized as 'hard' wood. Modern carbide tools make it very easy to shape these two.
Finishing very easy too.
Environmental alternatives might include locust, yellow cedar, port orford cedar (I have heard that the Canadians have a third world attitude about their marketable stands of cedar, etc.), old growth cypress, southern cypress, yellow pine. The super hard woods (packing crate) comiing out of Australia: jarrah, marranti, what's that great stuff Geoff is using?
Teak hardly moves once you get it in place. Mahogany moves some. When you put the coamings into the rabbet of the front coaming block, where any piece is touching another part, to help avoid rot down the line, BED all pieces! Try to keep sweet water out of the joints. Drive the screws in wth something too. There is good arguement to completely cover the pieces first (ie, befor they are put together) with thinned low viscosity epoxy or CPES. Then put your favorite finish on after assembly.
Sorry, don't know why I get into this.........................
Last edited by ebb; 12-13-2004 at 09:20 AM.
Not sure if the stuff is plantation grown or not. I do know that it is generally nice dense stuff with pretty straight grain and generally runs close in price to cherry.
I buy from these guys: Maine Coast Lumber Great prices, quality inventory at the local shop, reasonable delivery, and generally excellent quality wood.
When I built my new coamings I replaced the end blocks as well and they are now an integral part of the coaming itself.
The replacement of the coamings is detailed here: Coaming Replacement
Nathan
Dasein, Triton 668
www.dasein668.com
Nice work Nathan.
I wonder if Teak or Genuine Mahogany is a stiffer wood than the Philipine Mahogany that Pearson used.
Is there a way to "relax" the wood by slowly bending it over time before you varnish and install it?
The coaming boards need to bend quite a bit on the Commander
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