Wood Filler

[jshisha]

I restoring Francine Commander 131. I took the varished trim from the interior found around the bunks. Some of the brass screws broke off as I was taking them out. I will need to fill those holes and drill new ones. I am strippng them down and revanishing. Does anyone have any recommedation on what I can use to fill in the old screw holes? I want to match the natural wood color as best I can.

Thanks

Jake

[c_amos]

I am not the expert... but I will share what I have learned.

If you mix epoxy(for waterproof) or glue (for interior) with some saning dust or saw dust from the wood you are using, (or a like dark wood) ti will blend reasonably well. I did this on some of my original interior trim and it looks ok.

[ebb]

A tricky method is to drill out the hole with a special countersink screw bit (Fuller) for which you have matching plug cutters that produce plugs that are slightly tapered. Drilling out the damaged hole with a next size larger countersink would allow you to glue in a tight almost vanishing plug.

If you have any original mahogany from your remodel around you might cut your plugs from that. If you are changing the accommodation around, I found that the cleats inside the settees keeping the access hatches from falling through were mahogany on my Ariel. Also cleats inside the lockers and under the cabin sole - they might have been painted.

West Marine has some serviceable ready made, straight-sided mahogany plugs - relatively cheap. (yes: 5/16", 3/8", 1/2" - 10, 7 and 6 plugs per pack for $3.19.) This is your best bet I believe. You'd use them to plug clean round holes made with drill bits., not to cover countersink screws - you probably don't have the rail thickness required for that. Need at least 1/2" plank to counter-sink and plug screw holes. In my experience these plugs tend to be undersized a bit - when you glue them in you end up with a noticeable dark ring around the plug from either the glue or varnish - less noticeable when the grain of the plug is oriented with the grain of the work.

I'd drill a hole, sized to the chosen plug, in a small block of wood or good plywood - center the hole in the block over the damaged hole in the rail and clamp* it in place - then using the same drillbit use the guide-block to reem out the hole in the damaged rail. This method allows you to use your brad-point wood bits which make very clean edged holes in wood.
(Just took a look at my old settee rails. They're surprisingly substantial, so you might not be drilling all the way through. The brad points make a relatively flat bottom hole. Since it's cosmetic you don't need to go deep with the plug, especially if you epoxy it in.)

If the rails are quite dark you might fill holes with sanding dust and epoxy. 5-minute epoxy is the perfect stuff for this. 5-minute is also perfect for gluing in repair plugs.
Mixing mahogany dust with epoxy for a filler would come out quite dark. But down on the settee rail would probably go unnoticed after varnishing.

West Marine also carries Famowood wood putty in mahogany and teak color. 6oz can for $6.49. Doubtful you'll match the old wood - which would have to be spot-on for the different textured filler material to be unnoticeable. But it's quick and easy.
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* if your work is already installed and you screw up a screwhole, double-sided 'fiberglass' carpet tape might be used instead to hold the guide piece in place for drilling.. Use only the 'fiberglass' tape (Ace) which allows you to pull the damn stuff off again. It works on relatively smooth, non-dusty, flat wood surfaces - but you may have to clean off adhesive transfer with naptha or alcohol.

Good luck.

[Tony G]

Jake
If the wood is dark (like mohogany) you'll probably get away with mixing 'dust' in with epoxy or glue. Craig did alot of work on Faith and she looks fantastic so following his lead will more than likely work. Ebb does have a point that a truely seamless option would be 'plugging' with like wood, preferably from the same piece. I found when working with lighter colored teak that mixing (teak) dust with epoxy resulted in a very dark, very conspicuous filler. I was disappointed at first but then remembered the old adage if you can't hide a seam celebrate it. Or was it perfection is the enemy of progress? Now you have three replys...

[ebb]

Yer right, Tony, progress is the journey and perfection the goal. But if perfection is purity, it don't exist.

Improvisation is everything in tripping. Whether it's woodwork, love-making, or boxing. Improv requires certain knowledge of the form you are working in. Could almost say that without improvisation there can be no real progress.
Some people seem to be natural at it, the others, like one I know, don't make much progress.

You really do need to break the rules of the game, otherwise it's endless repetition without any style. You win unimportant battles and you don't progress.

Mixing fillers, Jazz, and boxing (my favorite sport to watch) are great metaphors for excellence. You can't fake these talents: "You got to know when to hold them, know when to fold them - know when to walk away, know when to run."

Progress is making decisions in mid air. There's a lot of that these days, great windows into life. I'm thinking skate-boarding for one. And sailboat racing.

"Beautiful work there, buddy, you didn't miss a beat."
Perfection shouldn't enter the picture.

[SkipperJer]

Jake,
I learned about epoxy repairs on wood from a group of people who restored antique wood and canvas canoes. The group's guru, Al Gillis, makes a distinction between "restore" (the recreation of retail floor and/or drawing board perfection), and "rehab" (recapturing design functionality in a presentable way). I'm currently "rehabbing" my Commander, hull # 270.

The starboard coaming on 270 had a substantial, six foot long crack. The previous owner had stabilized it by screwing vertical wooden strips to the board every two or three feet. The fix did not qualify for "rehab" in my book because it was not presentable but I needed to live with it for three years since I did not have a lot of time over the winter to work on the coamings. It functioned. I sailed.

This winter I pulled the coamings, bought a set of plug cutters from Home Depot and some scrap mahogany from a hardwood dealer. Of course, the company I work for took off on a record-breaking new business streak and I had no time over the winter. The bonus paid for a new mainsail but the coamings sat on the bench until last weekend.

I'm back on the path now. I'm plugging all the screw holes from the "fix" as well as the larger holes for the big screws that fastened the coaming to the cockpit wall. Many of the latter had gone soft over 40 years so I'm going to redrill everything and refasten through fresh holes. I'm sure it will look a little "dotty" but presentable when finished. I'm going to refer to the plugs as "beauty-marks" and the dark seam where the crack is as proof of the boat's experience and durability. I'll post pix when I'm done.

Think about whether your goal is "restore" or "rehab".

[ebb]

Skipperjer, You and Al Gillis make a great distinction there! Kind of like philosophy of life.
Maybe 'Restoration' - like perfection - is really unattainable - unless you are a museum, or someone with loads of $$$.
If you have a fully restored Ariel or Commander, you couldn't go sailing, you'd risk getting it wet.

Now 'Rehab' (rehabilitate) is a practical word - isn't it? My ancient Webster's defines it as refit, make ready, or equip for working. Its root is in clothing, to make suitable, or even a 'suit of sail'. Something we 'wear'. I see habitat and habitable in there too.

In life, the idea that you can take an aging body and restore it is preposterous.
Rehabbing is where it's at. There is style and attitude in it. Somehow it's more personal and real. No, restoration isn't living is it?

I think it's the spirit of the thing.

[ebb]

Klingspor's well illustrated catalog came again. It's becoming a "quality tool and supply source" that has a way to go before it joins the 80 year old Woodcraft catalog league.
Haven't time to compare prices, but in the past they were righteous.

They are a sandpaper outfit that is expanding their catalog and internet store into a fuller range of woodworking.
Sandpapers have become sophisticated. Different kinds of grit, different glues on different papers and cloths. All kinds of shapes and wheels (hear of a sanding mop recently?) All kinds of holders and blocks. Got peel and stick and hook and loop. ETC. They are and I hope they stay the best sanding supply around.

As per above:
Damaged screw remover. Double ended: one end drills, the other removes. set of two sizes - $18.95. (never had luck with these, but maybe they're better designed now.)

Economy Forstner bits, 16 pcs 1/4" to 2 1/4" - $49.95 [Forstner bits make true flat bottom holes with sharp sides. They would be best to REHAB holes for wood plugs.] You'd still need the guide block in the ap above. Forstner bits cut on their rims.. Larger sizes often have saw teeth on the rim like a hole saw, but they aren't the same. They can grab and should probably be used in a drill press - but the smooth rim cutters, if you're careful, can be free-handed - or used with a guide block for precision.

7 piece brad point bit set - $14.95.

Snug plug cutter set of 3 - $42,95. Sounds expensive but divide by three and you have a deal. These are slightly tapered - cutting plugs that get tight as you tap them in - so that when bunged they are less likely to show when you varnish. Have to cut plugs using a drill press.
Imco Forstner and brad points aren't bits that are easy to resharpen, can be done, but tedious and you need the files and stones. On the otherhand you probably don't use them all the time unless it's your hobby or business. If you have a range of sizes in a fairly decent grade, they get you out of trouble in style. When a commonly used one gets dull replace it with an upgrade.


check out these WOOD FILLERS
Klingspor also carries about half the range of Famowood fillers, 4oz cans $3.95. Assuming they are all the same formula, might get some birch and walnut cans and do a custom mixing experiment on a piece of acrylic with the mahogany filler - come up with a closer color match to the old rail. This paste is made with wood and acts more like wood when sanding and finishing. In direct contrast to the epoxy bullet you make with sawdust! Filling a ragged, tore-up hole with wood filler might look even more natural - like a knot or something - rather than a geometrical bung!
Custom mixing has to be done quickly. This product has bad solvents in it (acetone, naphtha, mek) , but it sets in 15mins. In the ole days we kept a can of filler solvent that could almost restore a seldom used can to its new can self. It's available but not from this catalog. A few drops of generic naphtha might help keep the mixing going until you get the shade you want.


[I guess I must add that I have found these items in the catalog and high light them because of our subject here. I'm NOT recommending them, I believe they are good quality because of other tools and a ton of true grit I've bought. That's it.
When you rehab, it's all about discovery - isn't it? Onward!]

[SkipperJer]

There aren't many people who would appreciate this quote but members of this group will. I discovered this browsing through a copy of the recently published, Deadrise and Crossplanked by Larry S. Chowing (http://www.amazon.com/Deadrise-Cross...9739246&sr=8-4)

Chowning chronicles the history of the deadrise (V-bottomed) wooden crab-fishing boats on the Chesapeake by interviewing the last remaining wooden boat builders in the Bay area. There was a time before the Bay began being fished out that the crab fishermen were doing so well they began asking for special trim features in teak or mahogany. Chowning quotes one of the builders, 84 year-old Francis Haynie, saying, "I have used mahogany, but that's real expensive. I figured out an alternative for the boys that didn't cost as much. I can take rosemary pine or white oak and treat it and you will swear it is mahogany. I put shoe polish , a little turpentine and stain on the stern and you can hardly tell that it is not mahogany."

And here I was thinking boating was expensive!