gooseneck sources

[Scott Galloway]

Help!

I tried the search feature, since I recall some prior discussion about goosenecks, but alas I found recent posts.

My problem is that I need a new gooseneck. We unstepped the mast on my Ariel #330 today to do accident-related mast and deck repairs. Some good and some bad news, but mostly good, other than having to saw off the tabernacle bolt, The SS bolt was in good shape, but was corroded to it's aluminum sleeve.

The real bad news is that the gooseneck on my boom is shot. Does anyone have a source for gooseneck parts? Is there a supplier or has anyone had one made recently, and what marine yard, foundry, fabricator made one for you?

If not, has anyone adapted one from another type of boat?

[Bill]

Sorry about the search engine. On Maika'i, we copied the original aluminum parts in ss. Some were done at Svend's and some by our machinest crewperson.

[Scott Galloway]

Thanks Bill,

Here are the gooseneck parts. This was the stock roller furling gooseneck, or so it appears to me. Part A (arrowhead) is broken. The front of the piece was shattered and a section of it broke away, leaving the bolt (part C) partially exposed.

Part B (toggle) has a severely elongated bolthole opening on the side not shown here and is worn somewhat on the side shown. I will endeavor to replace all three parts. Although I suppose if I could find a new roller furling core for part A, or have one made I could salvage the remainder of part A, but I would prefer to have a deeper flange where part A is inserted into the boom end. My boom and part A have been drilled twice in a total of eight locations, so there was some concern here by a previous owner, but the part was apparently reused. This gooseneck failure did not casue a catastrophic accident, but rather resulted from a catastrophic mast accident described in the Gallery forum. I am thinking that and stainless steel part may be a better choice if fabrication is necessary.

I am in the process of replacing all of the wire on my rig at the same time.

[Bill]

We replaced gooseneck toggle ("B") and the arrow shaped part in "A" with ss copies. The arrow is now fixed in place since we do not use roller reefing. Also, the fwd end boom casting was solid, so it was retained.

Take a look at the gooseneck set up on the "Ariel Restoration" thread in the gallery forum. You want to view post #21. IMHO, this is the way to go -- fix the point on the mast, ss toggle assembly and a fixed boom end fitting.

[commanderpete]

Rigrite sells some replacement parts. The arrowhead was about $ 55 I think.

They sell end castings, but they don't seem to match the boom profile on our boats.

http://www.rigrite.com/Spars/Pearson...eck_Parts.html

[Scott Galloway]

Thanks Bill and Commander Pete,

That Rig Rite page is superb. Heck they have spars, booms and all sorts of things, although I am not sure about he availability of our Ariel /Commander boom. We ought to feature this source in the manual if possible as a safety upgrade of thegooseneck, since these old parts are probably universally long of tooth. I need both the arrow and a toggle. I went to the Rig Rite page, reviewed the specifications and then measured my parts. Those advertised by Rig Ritew appear to be identical to the gooseneck parts on my boat.

I was able to obtain a used Roller Reefing Gooseneck Shaft (arrowhead) and the boom end cap into which it fits today, and both in good condition, but the prices quoted for fabrication of a new toggle from two sources was prohibitively expensive in light of the cost of a complete new boom assembly which woudl work on an Ariel but would be a different section and not OEM. I was most fortunate to obtain the used arrowhead. And with Rig Rite supplying the toggle, I am set.

I am going to order a new toggle from Rig Rite tomorrow.

While we are at it, anyone know of a ready source for 3/16 thick chainplates for the upper and lower shrouds? I receved quotes today ranging between $60 and $80 a piece in 316 stainless steel chainplates, polished above deck only.

This forum is most useful. Many heads worrying about the same boats produce wonderful results and many varied and inventive solutions. It is most fortunate when this site also produces sources of the OEM parts.

Very cool

[Scott Galloway]

If I knew the manufacturer of the boom section on my Ariel, I might be able to order an entire new front end cap (gooseneck casting) and roller-furling gooseneck assembly. The boom section on my boat appears to be very much like Rig-Rite part # RR #4025 shown on Rig Rite page

http://www.rigrite.com/Spars/Pearson...4025_Boom.html

The width and height of my boom are the same as that shown on the web pape, but the shape of the boom section 4025 seems to be a bit more tear-drop shaped than mine. Then again, I am staring down the hollow barrel of a boom and endeavoring to compare what I see to a black image on a white screen rather than comparing two black on white drawings.

About this Rig Rite #4025 section, Rig Rite says, "Common Boom usage: Pearson 22, Electra, Ensign, Triton. At one time pearson used the RR 34025 Boom on most of their boats up to 30'."

However, the write-up does not specifically list either the Commander or Ariel.

So, since I now have a functional end cap (gooseneck casting) and used spare, I have ordered only the Arrowhead and toggle.

I thought that those interested in goosenecks for Ariels might find this interesting: The Roller Reefing Gooseneck Shaft (arrowhead) part number PP-B2 as pictured in Commander Pete's post above sells from Rig Rite for $49.00.

The extruded gooseneck toggle 1 1/2 inch part number PP-B4 as pictured below sells from Rig Rite for $45.00. These prices are extremenly good in comparison to the cost of fabricating parts, uhless you are a machinist of course. Rig Rite prices were quoted to me today, September 15, 2004. Shipping will be in a couple of days.

These two parts are interchangeable in the gooseneck castings for a variety of different pearson boom sections.

In light of the vulnerability of these two parts to wear and damage, one of each might be a reasonable addition to every Ariel owner's spare parts box. I'll let you all know how they fit when mine arrive.

This order will provide me with the two new (pictured) parts to install, and one used but serviceable replacement for each part. I will also have an installed used but serviceable spare front end cap (gooseneck casting), and a spare used but serviceable gooseneck casting, since I obtained a used casting and a used arrowhead from a very generous person yesterday.

It is a relief to have been able to find these parts since I could not otherwise motor from the location where my mast will be raised to my slip on the other side of the bridge without a boom. No boom – no tabernacle. Once again the generosity and sound knowledge base of the Ariel/Commander community prevails, and at a considerable savings over the fabrication option...with spare parts no less!

Thanks again to Bill and Commander Pete for the leads. Both paths led me to the needed parts.

[Scott Galloway]

My gooseneck parts arrived today from Rig Rite.

The parts are the toggle and the gooseneck shaft (arrowhead). The photo below including inserts B, C, D, and E nested into a photo (A) of the complete assembly and broken/worn parts . This collection of shots displays the parts along with my original but cleaned-up front-end cap (gooseneck casting).

In the main photo (A), the new Rig Rite gooseneck shaft (arrowhead) is installed in my original front-end cap (gooseneck casting) on the right. The casting, spring and washer in the assembly are original.

The arrowhead and the toggle are identical, except that they are drilled for smaller (1/4 inch) fasteners. The toggle as displayed installed in photo A and uninstalled in Insert C and Insert E below has a smaller (1/4 inch) horizontal hole for the pin or bolt to connect it with the smaller (1/4 inch) hole in the arrowhead. The hole in the original toggle as shown in Insert E has worn into an oblong shape. A smaller (1/4 inch instead of 5/16 inch) hole in the new toggle means a weaker pin or bolt, but it also enables a smaller hole in the arrowhead, and this means a stronger arrowhead. The arrowhead was the part that broke on my original rig. See the broken arrowhead with larger hole on the left in Insert D (or in the assembled gooseneck assembly marked "A" in post #3) above. Also see the original bolt, washer and nut on left in Insert B bbelow in comparison with the new pin on the right also in Insert B.

This smaller hole in the arrowhead seems like an appropriate compromise to me although that stainless steel pin does seem a bit tiny to me.

A top view of the original toggle (on the left) and new toggle (on the right) is shown in Insert C. Although the length (height) of this part is correct, the vertical hole on the new Rig Rite toggle is also smaller in diameter. It is also 1/4 inch instead of 5/16 inches). No fastener was provided by Rig Rite to attach the toggle to the sliding mast track car. The original bolt used on my boat will not fit this hole. So it will take some thought before I fit the new toggle to my mast track car.

Note: Those additional thoughts consisted of using a 1/4 inch bolt and lock nut to attach the assembled gooseneck to the mast car. The1/4 inch bolt, being 1/16 inch smaller than the 5/16 inch holes in the gooseneck slide (mast car) wobbles excessively on the gooseneck slide. This is a concern because he wobbling will create asymetrical stress and resulting on the mast car. The choices seem to be:

1. Enlarge the verticle hole in the Rig Rite toggle. I called Rig Rite and they do not recommend elarging the vertical hole in the toggle. I also checked with a machine shop and they tell me that it woudl be difficult to enlarge the hole in the toggle with a dril press. They did not have milling equipment.

2. Select an alternative toggle if one is available. I was not able to indentiy a toggle on the Rig Rite site with 1/4 horizontal and 5/16 vertical holes, nor can I find an arrowhead with a 3/8 inch horizontal hole. I called Rig Rite and they don't make a toggle with a 1/4 horizontal and 5/16 vertical hole. They say that Pearson made both the toggle nad arrowhead with 1/4 inch holes.In contrast to what Rig Rite says, both of the old arrowheads that I have have from two different Ariel booms and two different Ariels have 5/16 inch holes in them. I suppose I could follow Bill's lead and have a new toggle fabricated in stainless steel.

3. Replace the gooseneck slide (mast car), but with what? I have not been able to locate on the Rig Rite site a gooseneck slide that fits on a 7/8 inch by 1/8 inch external track and accomodates a 1 1/2 inch high toggle. All is not as simple as it seemed. Do I really want to remove the bolt that serves as the track stop for the car, since that stainless steel goodie is frozen in place? Not really.

4. Locate and install flanged bushings in the hole in the gooseneck slide holes to reduce them to 1/4 inch. I have located precisely the bushings that I need in nylon, but I'd like stainless steel or bronze. I have foound 3/8 bronze flanged bushings, but I would have to either enlarge the holes in the gooseneck slide to 3/8 inch to accomodate them, or sand the outside diameter of the bronze bushings down to 5/16 inch.

The nylon bushings are only $0.19 apiece. I wil probably try them to see if they hold up while I more fully consider other motre permanent alternatives.

At this point I am more favorable to Option 4 above.

[SkipperJer]

Scott,
If I read the above correctly, you appear to be leaving the roller reefing function intact. I have an inherited a sail that can be jiffy-reefed which I prefer over rolling. The Chesapeake is not known for heavy wind but squalls are common. My few experiences trying to roll the main while the wind is rising have come dangerously close to activating my adrenal glands. One of my life goals is to have my adrenal glands atrophy from lack of use. I also learned to sail with slab/jiffy-reefing systems and doing the whole job at the mast make more sense to me.

However, after adding cheekblocks and lines to the boom and a reefing hook at the gooseneck I find that the boom tends to slift aft under load and starts to roll when a reef is taken. The pull on the cheekblocks gets out of line and the sail shape goes bad. I'm trying to stop the roll without replacing all the gear. Rig-Rite has a note on the arrowhead page about drilling a hole in the arrowhead shaft to disable roller reefing. Did you consider this?

Thanks for the detailed discussion. This rookie appreciates it.
Jerry
Commander 270

[Scott Galloway]

SkipperJer,

I have been posting this technical stuff, because I see this site as one wonderful database on which current and future owners of Ariels and Commanders may rely to keep these great little boats sailing for years to come. It's the best thing like it that I have seen on the web.

Now, as to roller reefing, I can't imagine using that feature either. Sounds like a horribly sloppy thing to do to your mainsail. I merely have broken arrowhead on my gooseneck, but the gooseneck casting and spring are fine. I needed to replace the arrowhead and the badly worn toggle. If Rig Rite made a less expensive non-roller reef option, I might have considered it, but I tend to err on the side of keeping my boat more-or less stock. Since the roller reefing feature does not seem to get in the way or interfere with my jiffy reefing option, and since a fixed arrowhead would be equally vulnerable to accidental damage in a jibe or mast accident, I see no reason to disable that feature. I see no reason to disable a feature that I don’t use unless that feature creates some problem. So far, I cannot think of any problem created by the spring-loaded arrowhead. Actually if you have a spare arrowhead onboard, the readily removable part would seem to be an advantage should that part of your gooseneck fail at sea.

I am set up with two sets of reef points and jiffy reefing: Nothing fancy. I can do the whole thing single handed, but I need to get to the mast and the rest of the jiffy reefing process, I do sitting on the top of the cabin or from the cockpit. I have not run my reefing lines back to the cockpit, nor do I have a winch for those lines, and that wil be an improvement if and when I buy some cabin top winches.

I have been told by some other Ariel sailors that I reef much later than I should because I find it quite normal to sail around in 25 knots of wind at 40 degrees of heel withe ful main up. I suppose that I sail around that way because it is a pain to go forward alone to reef, and because for some reason my boat will sail at a high degree of heel with or without a reef or two, although two reefs do calm things down, or are those two reeves? I can approximate hull speed while doing so. On log passages a reef is in order, but for short forays into deep wind, I sometimes go forth fully rigged.

A couple of cabin-top winches would probably reform me.

[Scott Galloway]

So here is my lastest version of the installation of my new Rig Rite gooseneck toggle.

1. I found some 5/16 bronze bushings at Orchared Supply Hardware.

2. I pressed them into the 5/16 holes in the goosenck slide (see bottom photo).

3. I then cut the bushings to length with a hack saw and flat file so that the gooseneck toggle and two stainless steel washers just fit between them. (See top photo...Please note that the lock nut on the 1/4 inch bolt was not tighened when I took this photo, so the assembly is loose as a goose..neck.)

4. The bushings are held in place on the inside by the washers on either side of the toggle and by a stainless steel flat washer and the hex head of the 1/4 inch bolt above and a stainless steel flat washer, lock washer and lock nut below.

5. The aluminum gooseck toggle is protected from and insolated from the bronze bushings by the stainless steel washers. I am not sure whether the outside washers and lock washer are really necessary, but since that was the way the original installation of the old gooseneck toggle was, I duplicated it. I do like the idea of the washers being in contact with the bushings rather than the bolt head and lock nut.

6. In addition to peventing the smaller 1/4 inch bolt from wobbling in the 5/16 inch holes, the 1.5 inch high gooseneck toggle will no longer rattle up and down in the much larger gooseneck slide space formerly available to it. Of course there's three kinds of metal in there, but hey they are all moving parts. I cut the bushings from the same piece of 5/16 :1/4 bronze bushing stock. The stock cost less than $3.00. I have enough left from that one piece to make two more bushings.

In the upper photo, you are looking at the slot in the gooseneck toggle. This slot would be facing the mast if the boom were straight back on the boat's center line. The 1/4 inch bolt is visible through the slot.

[commanderpete]

D & R Marine also carries the gooseneck shaft (arrowhead). The cost was $25. You have to drill the holes.

The only other part we haven't talked about is the gooseneck casting.

I couldn't find a direct replacement. D & R sells one that is pretty close. I had to do some grinding to get it to fit

[commanderpete]

The part that fits in the boom was little too long

sideview

[commanderpete]

I believe this casting was designed to fit a RR 4025 boom. Rig Rite also sells a casting for $ 159

http://www.rigrite.com/Spars/Pearson...4025_Boom.html

I'm certain that our boom is different than the 4025. The picture below shows the inside of our boom where the casting goes

I think the casting cost about $ 80 from D & R. I can't find my notes on that.
Rudy seems to have a different price for his products every time you call him anyway

http://www.drmarine.com/default.asp

[carl291]

Does anyone have a roller reefing boom that appears to take a crank handle of some sort at the gooseneck to reef the main? This boom end casting has a stainless worm gear and a 1/2 in. shaft with a 1/4 in. roll pin that would appear to engage a crank handle of some sort. This came with A-245, this boat had to be one of the high end priced Ariels built, It appears to have every option available for an Ariel. From the depth sounder pickup molded into the hull ahead of the ballast,inboard,spinnaker gear to all screens for opening ports and hatches.