FS: Ariel "III C's" in Havre de Grace, MD

[c_amos]

[size=3]Came across this Ariel for sale on Yacht World, don’t see the Hull number listed.[/size][size=3][/size]
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[size=3]http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...15&slim=quick&[/size]

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III C's is a 26 ft. Pearson. Inventory to include-Sails-Main[new 89] with blue cover-main boom has roller furling gooseneck-100% jib working jib storm jib. Radio, quest [new 2004]-depth sounder, Ray Jeff240 -compass with cover[new 92] 2 marine batteries [2003] Atomic 4 [replaced 1993]- electric fuel pump-fram fuel and water separator-- anchor-2 winch handles-2barient model10p[new 1991]-2fire extinguishers-electric bilge manual bilge-fuel tank new in 1991-12 volt electric system-blower -running lights- cabin lights- mast head lights-dome light---Porta potti-all coast guard safety equip.--all wood trim,splash rails,winch blocks,hatch runners replaced-original blue prints






Havre de Grace Yacht sales- Broker Ken Roach 410-939-2161office 302-381-2812cell --E-mail captainkenneth@hotmail.com



Contact Havre de Grace Yacht Sales & Marinas.

723 Water Street
Havre de Grace, MD 21078, USA

Tel (410) 939-2161

Fax (410) 939-0220

[ebb]

Three C's has gotten upgrades over the years, could think of them as normal. We don't get a shot of the exterior woodwork which seems a little strange as this is a broker's site. Inside looks original, again, except for upkeep.

What is interesting is the price.

Ariel's have been stuck at around half what is being asked here. This puts the going value, assuming the broker knows what he is doing, at around what late '80s Hunters - 90s Macgregors - and 70s Islanders are asking.


Don't that make you feel GOOD? Maybe A/Cs are finely beginning to be seen for what I think, anyway, is their real worth. Of course their actual worth is a lot more. And the dollar is continuously being cheapened....

but ten grand is getting respectable!
Could paint that on the rump.

[Mike Goodwin]

Asking ten for it don't make it worth ten.
It is only worth ten grand when someone pays that for it, until then they are still five grand boats.

[ebb]

That's right.

It's the dealer who establishes the price. The rule is that he will "charge what the traffic will bear." The Ariel will be worth what somebody will pay for her.

Who establishes the price, dealer or buyer? Dealer is a pro, he oughta know values, if he accepts your $5000 offer then that is what the boat is worth.

But if the boat has no hidden flaws and is as good as the seller says then a fair offer to start dickering is going to be $8000 or 20% off his asking price.

Eight grand would be a great jump in the 'historic' worth (let's call it) of an Ariel - and the new owner would be happy and satisfied with his bargain.

Why does the norm have to be $5000 (if it is that)?
Apparently the trader doesn't buy that value.
I hope he or she is right!

Ariel/Commanders have been very undervalued, in my unprejudiced opinion.

[Mike Goodwin]

I think the problem is with we the owners/sellers.
The other side of the coin , just because I paid $600 doesn't mean it isn't worth more. 2 identical Arials I paid $600 you paid $3500 , they should both be worth $5000 or $10,000 . In fact, if you go with the thinking of antique dealer/colectors , mine , #45 , is worth more because it is has lower 'edition' number.
But I really think, if you are using brokers , it is just because they want to up their fees and 2 grand is the minimum to make it worth their while.

A few years ago my partner and I bought a C&C 40 tall rig full race edition for $26,000 , the surveyer undervalued the boat ( and had addmited he wanted it for himself ) , he upset the heirs when he offered $23K. I had been contracted to make the boat presentable for $1000 . I went to the heirs and offered them $26k as she sat and they jumped on it . Now it is a $65k to $100k boat.

As a boatbuilder, I think our boats are 'worth' around $2000 to $25K , but that is just an opinion .

[frank durant]

Opinions.....eveyone has one !! Mine is that an inexperienced buyer will think that the $995 "bargain" he saw with bad decks ,old sails and no inventory is real cheap compared to a cream puff like Sirroocco for $8000 ( I feel it's worth more )Then he buys it...becomes best friends with home depot and west marine..gets 3 increases to his mastercard limit ( price new sails,dodger,bimini, cushions,outboard etc BEFORE all the misc stuff ) and then puts in HUNDREDS or even thousands of hours ..and does not sail for years .BUT at $995 how can you go wrong?? In my books... I'd pay the $8000 ,take the cream puff,then personalize it. But....that's only my opinion #50

[c_amos]

#226 was in much better shape then some. Having more then doubled the price paid and worked for months already (with at least as much work remaining) I believe Sirroocco would truly be a value at 2x the price listed.

How would this relate to III C's $10k asking price? I would have to see her to know.

I will say that the old adage that 'you get what you pay for' has merit.

IMHO.

[ebb]

You know the story:
Vincent Van Gogh only sold one painting in his lifetime and that was to his brother Theo. Don't know what Theo gave his brother, but it probably was rent money.

In 1987 "Irises" sold at auction for an incredible 69.95 million to Aussie entrepenuer Alan Bond who then defaulted because he was going thru bankrupcy. It came out that the very reputable auction house Sothebys had extended Bond a loan to pay for the painting.

Later it was bought for an unknown but estimated 6 million by the Getty Museum. So what is the true value of "Irises" as it gets shunted around in the big sick world of money and fraud? Used to believe that the actual value of the dollar was in art in the 'free' market. And what has happened to the unsullied reputation of Sothebys? Or the rep of the surveyor?

You realists are absolutely correct. The Riel in question is worth exactly what you pay for her. Just trying to establish the true base value one would start the bid at - which is probably around 6 million. And the real sweat on your shirts!

[commanderpete]

I just don't understand how people expect to sell a boat that's filthy, smelly, bilge full of water, cluttered with junk. You see it time and again.

You're not selling newbies a boat, you're selling a dream.

Grim reality comes later

[c_amos]

I just don't understand how people expect to sell a boat that's filthy, smelly, bilge full of water, cluttered with junk. You see it time and again.

You're not selling newbies a boat, you're selling a dream.



Grim reality comes later

[size=3]It seems to me that there are a couple reasons. The person who sells the boat has either lost interest, (or was never really devoted to it) or has died.[/size]

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[size=3]One here told a story (I am sorry I can not remember who it was) of the Ariel he sailed in his youth, that was neglected. The boat later was stripped for parts and gave it's life to fit out the boat he wound up with. This idea that there are seasons in a boats life, seems apparent in the pages of this forum.[/size]

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[size=3]I know in the history of #226, my own 'Faith' that she has known these 'tides' and the documentation of them is apparent after a few minutes of sanding.[/size]

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[size=3]It seems as though many are inclined to sell, only at the lowest point of the ebb. Otherwise, there are those who might 'spruce up' a boat with a coat of paint (often poorly applied) in an attempt to woo the 'newbies'.[/size]

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[size=3]Then there are the rare examples like Steve, who offer the fruits of their labor at it's prime. Such men, and boats are a credit to make.[/size]

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[size=3]I hope that when 'Faith' should find herself another captain, by sale or (seems more likely to me at this point) inheritance, that I should be found among that lot.[/size]

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May we all.

[commanderpete]

I'm with you.

I suppose you pretty much have to expect that, in the 40 years of the boat's life, one or more of her owners has broken the chain of stewardship and let her go to hell. The boat can stand quite a bit of neglect, but only up to a point. Hopefully an angel comes along to save her.

Its the same with any boat. Even 10-20 year old boats can be a disaster.

I wasn't trying to pick on III C's, the boat looks to be in decent shape.

I just think you could sell a boat much more easily if you spent a day cleaning her up, took some nice pictures, and put together a little webpage.

I get a kick out of reading boat ads. You can tell alot from the ad, but you have to read between the lines.

For example:

"1969 Ariel 27 foot"----Owner doesn't even know what kind of boat he has

"Needs TLC"---A cosmetic mess

"Sink, compass, water tank, lifejackets, flares & more"---No upgrades ever

"5 bags of sails"---The original sails plus some more blown out laundry

"Yard maintained"---Clueless owner grudgingly paid the boatyard to fix things after they broke

"Ready to sail"---Still floating (last I checked)

[Mike Goodwin]

I've been buying, fixing up and selling boats since the 60's and believe me , it is rare that you make any 'real' money if you track and value your time .
Unless you have your own dock it will cost the average Ariel over $1200 yearly just for dockage . A basic set of sails would cost close to the average selling price of the boats on this list . A motor is $1300 and up . A dodger is $900 or better for a quality fit . Cushions could run $600 or more . Radios, depth sounder, speedo, GPS could add a grand or more easiely . New rigging . standing and running with upgraded sail controls another $1000 or more . $1200 to $1400 for a good pair of winches .
Just refitting a tired old Ariel with no major flaws other than worn out gear can cost well over $8000 before you paint , pretty it up and re-arange the interior.
From what I have seen Sirocco is a great deal and III C's wouldn't bear a close scrutiny .
On a side note , to me an A-4 is a negative asset regardless of condition in these boats ( I hate inboard gas ), I would rather an outboard than an Atomic 4. A little diesel Yanmar twin is a plus.
I took my Ariel , because it was the only way I would ever get the $600 owed me . My wife talked me into fixing it up because we can do 99% of the work and it does have sweet lines .

[commanderpete]

Hey Mike, we're supposed to keep that a secret.

How are we ever going to get any new members?

[ebb]

Eggs Ackley. Pay what ever you can for an A/C. But let's upgrade the base value for a keptup boat to 10 grand....OK? Better for all of us and for the good of the class.

[mbd]

I have an idea! Let's wait until I get one - then I'm all for upgrading the values!