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Thread: Headsails

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Hampton Roads Va.
    Posts
    821

    Exclamation Another look

    If you look at the 'fact sheet' from the website header, look at the sail diagram and you see a large genny outlined that comes aft of the house by nearly a foot. It is sheeted to a posistion on the track about where my winches are located. Is that a 180? In these parts that might move the boat in the summer.

    Jealous Chesbay Sailor

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    FOSSIL OREGON
    Posts
    197

    sheets

    Bill, went out with the small jib--i'd call mine about a 100%, as it doesn't overlap much, and has a pretty high clew.I routed the sheets between fwd. shroud and upper shroud, and it worked great! The block was set about the same spot as in your photo, but inboard more, next to cabin trunk. Interesting how the angle stays about the same with it sheeted in tight or out. Must have it lead about right. I took some pictures, but left camera on the boat! I know there is so much more to all this, like sail shape? Twist n the sail? I'm happy when the tell tales start going horizontal!

    So what do i do about leach flutter now? lol From my perspective in the cockpit it seemed that the angle was pulling down more than out, which should be good for the leach flutter wouldn't it? Maybe the old thing is just pretty stretched out.
    I'd like to do some sailing/racing sometime with some REAL sailors!

    Maybe we should start a sailing lesson thread? Something like "How to sail your Ariel?" I know, it's been covered, do a search! lol
    Last edited by willie; 03-06-2005 at 12:00 PM.
    wet willieave maria

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Rafael, CA
    Posts
    3,621

    How To Sail Your Ariel/Commander

    Yes, yes, yes.
    Now let's have in the first chapter a layout,
    A DRAWING OF THE WHOLE BOAT DECK
    with all the pertinent positions of all jib's and genny clews

    Start with factory,
    Move to remedials, upgrades.
    Go to what is current and optimum.
    Type and size of track. Mounting options.
    Rigging and blocks.
    Sheets, sizes, camlocks, etc.
    Best position, angle off coaming, and size winches.
    Pictures,
    Diagrams.
    Advice from the experts.
    Pictures of experts winning races.
    Pictures of foredeck crew in proper uniform.

    Leads on headsails,
    New, recutting, recycle.
    Dacron, new fabric.
    Furling, reefing.

    Bagging, Proper folding. Stowage.
    In short, Everything!
    Last edited by ebb; 03-06-2005 at 11:22 AM.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    FOSSIL OREGON
    Posts
    197

    yes, yes, yes!

    Especially the foredeck crew in proper uniform! Think you about covered it Ebb!

    My small crew from yesterday, ages 8,9,and 10, informed me we needed a jolly roger. So just ordered one. They insisted on the 3x5 model. Now i have to figure out how to fly the dang thing while they're onboard! Thinking the topping lift might work. This ought to be a sight going down the Columbia!

    On a more serious note, my older daughter asks me "Dad, what would happen if you fell overboard?" To set the scene, it's just me and the 3 girls. Water is maybe 50 degrees now. They have no idea how to sail the boat, (well, they like to steer her a bit, but that's about it at this point) how to use the vhf, or even the cell phone most likely, in an emergency. So we talked. And did some teaching. Don't really know what would happen, but it wouldn't be good.I was glad to get home safe and sound. Nobody fell in. But for some reason, it worried me the whole time we were out. Maybe it was just knowing you wouldn't be able to do much after 10 or 15 min. in the water.Don't know if i could make it back aboard if i was able to get to the boat. I've been in the water for about an hour when it's that cold, and it's no fun. You get to a point where you can't even think, let alone do anything but shiver. And shiver. Anyway,
    I think the best solution would be to have mom along next time. She knows how to sail, at least good enough maybe she'd run me over on the way back to get me! Short of that, we all wear lifejackets of course, don't go fwd. unless absolutely necessary, and then just me, and just be very very careful.
    The thought of them alone out there on the boat, or watching them hit the rocks is pretty sobering. Maybe the best thing would be to have them drop the sails and release sheets, throw the life ring, put boarding ladder over the side, and call for help. Don't really know if the vhf would do much, think the cell and 911 would be better. I do know we have a busy summer ahead teaching them to handle the boat.
    Last edited by willie; 03-06-2005 at 12:25 PM.
    wet willieave maria

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Rafael, CA
    Posts
    3,621

    Falling in

    Y'know Bill,
    It's not going to be long befor all your young crew will know how to sail.
    But if you fell in, now by golly, what would you like to happen on the boat?

    Maybe show them how to depower the sailboat
    so at least you might swim back to it? Then what - but that's something else.

    Coming about or tacking maybe not, but how about jibing? Could they untangle the lifering?

    Something that doesn't require strength, but will alter the boat's speed or direction. Considering there could be novice guests aboard instead of the kidds what would you tell them to do? Have to be something simple. And natural.

    I think this is a really important question!

    Not talking about a fullfledged man overboard drill.
    Last edited by ebb; 03-06-2005 at 01:24 PM.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    FOSSIL OREGON
    Posts
    197
    The girls thought it was pretty important too!! They're old enough to know that if dad wasn't sailing the boat, they'd be in trouble. They're getting the hang of things--how to steer to keep the sails full, straight line, pick a spot on the horizon, etc., and i let the older one drive her into the marina this time. They help with the jib sheets, know how to take two wraps around the winches--clockwise!--and what tacking and jibing is about. So we're gaining.And they really enjoy doing the sailing, and being a part of it, not just sitting there board.

    I think you're right about depowering the sails. Show them to release the main and jib sheets, and point her into the wind. And hope i can make it back.
    I have a rope boarding ladder that fits on a winch, hangs over. That might work. They could throw the ring about 10 feet. Maybe! For now, this is about all i could hope for. Take it a step at a time. Hell, they'll probably be able to sail better than dad by this fall!
    wet willieave maria

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Orinda, California
    Posts
    2,311

    Prevention

    The most likely scenario is you going forward and then falling off the boat. It has happened here, and we lost a sailor.

    The important question: Do you "hook on" when you go forward? A safety harness (or a vest with D rings) and a proper tether should be used. Clip onto the handrails, shrouds and the whisker pole ring on the mast. Reverse on returning to the cockpit.

    Better yet, do as Scott Galloway has done and install jack lines from the cockpit to the foredeck. Clip on as you leave the cockpit and you are good up and back. Because Scott is a solo sailor, he clips on religiously. Cheap insurance considering the alternative.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    FOSSIL OREGON
    Posts
    197
    I agree 100%+!
    So any recommendations on a good vest with d rings, jack lines, teathers?
    And any good deals to be found on such items? I go out alone about 1/2 the time. The other half, well, sometimes it's worse than alone! lol (if something were to happen)
    wet willieave maria

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Grand Haven / Muskegon, Michigan
    Posts
    616

    furling genoa

    Lucky Dawg is lacking a good sail inventory. I am looking into "new" used sails from suppliers per your recommendations (Atlantic, Bacon, etc). Curious about an all around genoa that I could use with a CDI Flexible Furler. I have the sail dimensions as below. NEW main and 135% genoa seem to be about 2200-2800+. 135, 155, ????
    Attached Images  

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Scarborough, Maine
    Posts
    1,439
    A local sail maker will have suggestions for your local conditions. For furlers, around here 135% seems about right, and was the perfect size on my last boat.
    Mike
    Totoro (Sea Sprite 23 #626)

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Narragansett Bay, R.I.
    Posts
    597
    You may also want to look at cruising direct for an on-line quote.

    http://www.cruisingdirect.com/

    This is a division of North Sails. My current Main (Dacron) and Genoa (a Mylar 130) are from these guys.

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Asst. Vice Commodore, NorthEast Fleet, Commander Division (Ret.) Brightwaters, N.Y.
    Posts
    1,823
    I recall the used sail sites had alot of hank-on genoas, but few furling sails.

    You need to get the right luff tape size. You also need to find one with a sun cover that matches your other canvas.

    So, you'll need a bit of luck to find the right used sail.

    The luff length on a furling sail is shorter than a hank-on sail, to account for the drum and swivel.

    Since our boats are headsail driven, a new genoa would give you more of a performance boost than a new mainsail. You might want to get a new genoa and squeeze some more life out of the main.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Orinda, California
    Posts
    2,311

    Post Advice For Avoiding Problems With Roller Furlers

    The May-June 2007 Good Old Boat magazine has an informative article on furlers beginning at page 20. It's titled "Respecting the Furler" and discusses such things as preventing halyard wrap -- "Properly set up, halyards don't wrap."

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Grand Haven / Muskegon, Michigan
    Posts
    616
    Pete, thanks for the info.

    I have gotten 5 or 6 quotes - Yow! Pricey to do both. That is a great suggestion to get the genoa first. I will point my dollars forward.

    (Commander Pete, I meant to say so before, thanks so much for your Boats-for-Sale sleuthing with Lucky Dawg! I wouldn't have known she was out there were it not for you posting the ad here. A couple years of boatless lurking paid off in spades! Thanks a ton.)

    Did read that article in Good Old Boat Bill, but thanks for the reminder. Come to think of it, I had been a boatless lurker subscriber to Good Old Boat for several years too.

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    11
    Can someone shed some light on the effects of different luff dimensions. It seem that masthead rigs have genoas that are hoisted nearly to the masthead yet working jibs are a couple of feet shorter in the luff.

    What happens if you have a 30.5 foot luff (instead of 28) with a 9 foot foot? Does this affect the balance? Or speed? What is the design reason for the Ariel's sail plan?

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