Exterior Wood Finishes

[ebb]

Golly, I've said this befor:
Cetol looks like Cetol. It was probably named after viseral whale relief. I personally think the smokey caramel look is exceeding unattractive. And is as recognizable as a product on your boat as Mickey Mouse is Disney.

On the other hand Bristol Finish is bright and up scale as twenty coats on a Herreschoff classic. I saw a folkbote get dolled up this summer and there is no way you can tell that this finish is not varnish. NO WAY, trust me!

Whether it has the same who gives a damn seasonal recoating schedule I don't know. Look in to it, ok? Three four coats no sanding a day(?) The difference is like technicolor vs black and white. (was gonna say Sepia, but none of you children even know who Randolph Scott was!)

An Ariel or Commander deserves better than Cetol!

(this is NOT to say that Cetol is inferior. It's great, I've used it, but it really looks horrible compared to varnish or Bristol Finish on mahogany.
YAS, That's what we need. More unsubstantiated O pinions!!)

[willie]

Did the search on combings, and WOW. Now i gotta take mine off and bring em home! It never ends! I think about 10 coats of epifanies will be good. Might have to look into this Bristol Finish though....

So how about some tips on removal? (probably here somewhere if i dig enuf)I see some screw heads , and some bungs... also some PO holes i want to fill. Any woodworking tips with those to make em blend in? Also, how are the blocks attached to the cabin? Have to do some more poking around.
Ave M. had cetol everywhere, even on the winches! Has to go.

[Dan Maliszewski]

Avast,

The coaming blocks on Adele M are attached to the cabin from the inside with four long wood screws through the cabin exterior wall just aft of the deadlights. A few years ago I laminated up some new ones to duplicate the old fossils which were rotbound. Some of the most complex angles I've ever worked with, but they came out OK. If I had to do it again, I would just make up a simple right angle return like some other captains have did and be done with it already.

Captain Ebb: Randolph Scott - Ain't he the father of ragtime jazz? And that Sepia fellow, he was that tall robot in the Starwars movies, nes pas? I ain't no kiddie; heck, I got neckties older than my Ariel. I just can't remember where I put 'em.......

Carry on....

[commanderpete]

Over the years I've used varnish, then Cetol, then Bristol Finish, and back to varnish.

CETOL

I think it looks O.K. I used to get many compliments on my beautiful "varnish" during the years I used Cetol. It looks much better on light woods such as Philipine mohogany than it does on dark woods like teak.

You need to use both the base coat and the gloss topcoat. If you keep putting on layers of the base coat it will look muddy. Go with 3 coats of base and 3+ coats of gloss.

I never tried Cetol Light, which has less pigment. However, the pigment is probably the UV protection.

The only real benefit of Cetol over varnish is that you don't have to sand between coats. However, I eventually decided that this was no great advantage.

First, you don't really have to "sand" between coats. You just need to give it a quick rub with a Scotchbrite pad and wipe it with a tackcloth. This can't possibly take more than a few minutes.

Second, you WANT to "sand" between coats, no matter what product you use. You need to rub out the dust, bugs, runs, etc. that get onto the surface overnight. Its the only way to get a superior finish.

BRISTOL FINISH

The stuff sounded great. "Multiyear performance." No sanding. Best of all, you can apply multiple coats in a day. I could do all of my brightwork in a weekend. I took the wood off the boat, stripped it down, and put on 8 or 10 coats of the stuff.

Couple of things about Bristol Finish.

1) Its expensive

2) The fumes are deadly. Need a respirator.

3) It dries almost instantly, no going back over it. You need good brush technique.

4) I think the color is a little yellow.

5) Its very finiky. I was doing 16 pieces at once, indoors. Two pieces came out badly after one of the coats--the two closest to the window. I fixed them, but you might have more trouble using this stuff down at the boatyard.

Nevertheless, I was pretty happy after I finished.

A few months later the stuff started to fail. It didn't lift or peel. It just started to....disappear. The problem began at the tops of the handrails and coaming boards, which are most exposed to sun, and spread. I touched it up for a while, which is not convenient since you have to mix up a batch of the 3 part product. Eventually I gave up and stripped it all off.

I've since read a number of reports on the internet from people who are very unhappy with Bristol Finish. Their complaints to Bristol Finish were met with hostility. They'll just tell you it was applied improperly.

In my case I followed the instructions to the letter. I applied it under ideal conditions indoors.

To be fair, I've also heard some glowing reports from people who've used it.

You have to decide whether you want to risk it.

VARNISH

It really is gorgeous stuff. Like brushing on pure maple syrup. I go with the Epifanes High Gloss.

Longevity seems about the same as with Cetol. I don't know if they've been tested side by side.

I just don't feel that varnish is any more work than Cetol. If I thought there was something better and easier than varnish I would use it.

I'm not sure why this subject engenders so much passion. People defend their choice of product with a nearly fanatical devotion.

Actually, I think proper technique is far more crucial than your choice of product. The most important thing is keeping up with it.

Brightwork is part of what seperates our boats from all those floating clorox bottles out there.

[John]

Regarding removing anything left on your coamings: I have used a heat gun with great success on my grabrails. I bought the cheap one from Harbor Tools but you can go first class if you want. Warm the varnish up and gently scrape it off. It's like magic.

8 coats of epiphanes or z-Spar Flagship will make your heartstrings twang. Iused red mahogany filler/stain underneath and it worked well. Cleanliness is everything.

Ebb.....How do you keep your winch stands looking so good??

[Tony G]

C-Pete,

There you go flaunting those rub-rails again! When, man, when do we get to hear the story. Also, I must ask, can I see the inside of Grace's toe-rail in a current picture?

'Enunimous'

P.S. I have no idea who this Tony G character is...

[ebb]

Hmmmm....interesting whatr you say, C'pete, about Bristol Finish. I would urge anybody who's looking into this to check out the MSDS, and since it is the company that provides information, double the bad parts. I'm persuaded not to use it now. Solvents are the real free radicals in the modern health horror department. Health depends on just how much your immune system can tolerate. And if you are trying to boost yours, like I am with pills and potions, then you know you are already in trouble.

Can't remember how volitile Cetol was, but it is marketed by a company called Sikkens, which might tell us something. Remember that danish teak oil called Deks Ole (?) man, that would knock you down too. I might be looking for a waterbourne finish when 338 gets made up. And Z-Spar Captains varnish you religously had to add, and keep adding as you painted, that potent and pepperminty T-10 to every pot of paint. Think I got high on that stuff.

A lot of good ole chemicals are banned in California, but it ain't no problem getting any lethal concoction from the underground. Tin bottom (the antifouling the Navy uses and that creates a zone devoid of life under your marina berth), for example, is just as available as Trinidad, and cheaper. Hasn't a floor product company broken into the marine market with water cleanup no Voc urethane finish? Maybe someone should try Zar on their coamings!

Whatever system, you should use their paste filler on mahogany. With regular varnish anyway no matter how many coats the pores will never fill and flatten out. Filled wood means less coats for that smooth sexy sheen.


Don't know what to tell ya, John, the winch mounds have never been touched by me. Must be why they look so good. But the boat is under a tent (most of the time - winter's coming!) A good bit of advice therefor is to make up some of those blue Sunbrella antimacassars you often see on powerboats. Real varnish (you're nuts to do it!!) should particularly be protected from sun and rain with a coverpoo.


www.epifanes.com/quanda.htm

will give you longwinded (Scott and ebb style) advice on varnishing, especially prep. Guys are right here, Epifanes has the best rep and is most likely being used on all the gorgeous yachts you see.

[ebb]

That ugh in the last post doesn't work. So get on their site and punch the Q & A bar. E. is very much a traditional varnish with all the curtaining and bubbling problems spar varnish has. Varnish is probably formulated for grizzled chain smoking professionals who've spent their life breathing solvent fumes and learning how to barely control the syrup they spread on wood. It's a conspiracy in providing employment for yard workers.

You can check on how good the guy is by running your fingers along the underside of a rail to feel for any bumps there.