Good Night!!! Can you really lift that rudder by yourself? That's some serious woodage C'Pete.
What do your neighbours think when you bring 'that, that thing' home with you?
Good Night!!! Can you really lift that rudder by yourself? That's some serious woodage C'Pete.
What do your neighbours think when you bring 'that, that thing' home with you?
Capt Cpete,
Whomever made your 'replacement' two decades ago made an exact copy. Looks like it's right out of the Manual.
Looking in from the moniter here at the photos, the wood shows a remarkable lack of cracking at the top and bottom, it could be teak in there.
That separation of the planks reminds me of a trick I was once shown. It is that just befor you put the edge to edge planks together for the last time, you take the block plane and put a very slight concave in the edges. Land carpenters do the same with plank tables that are glued. The idea is to relieve the pressure from the extra swelling in the endgrain. Seems backwards, doesn't it?
A good part of the trailing edge of the rudder could be carved thinner if a narrow piece was glued to the outer plank over the bolts and nuts. In other words another straight piece would be glued on over the boltholes. Just have to be careful when carving to avoid the oversize washer holes. Think this might work? Have to really have Faith in the glue!
CPete, That is a mighty good looking rudder, and it is the exact one (design, straight through shaft) that I'm presently rounding up all of the items needed to build. Still haven't decided how I want to join the wood and shaft. Drilling the shaft really bugs me but I'll bet that it would last another 35 yrs.!
I am looking for a supply source for the 1 inch naval bronze rod; would appreciate any ideas as to a possible supplier!
Jim, Mon' Ke Ne #391
CPete,
Do you still have the Commander rudder? What I'm getting at is that I would love to have the actual length measurement of the one inch rudder shaft on the rudder that you photographed so very well. I'm laying in supplies to build my new rudder in the fall of 2004 follwing the sailing season and just prior us taking her back up to the great lakes.
I would sincerely appreciate receiving the measurement if it's not a problem.
Thanks so much, Jim
Cmdrpete- The exact length of the shaft would be a very useful measurement for me too, for the same reasons. It is one of the few useful measurements that isn't in my manual so it might be nice to have it posted somewhere that can be easily located for future reference. It's seeming like more and more boats are coming of age where the information will be valuable. Length/depth/thickness of rudder would also be handy. Being able to build one without having to haul the boat to take measurements would make the project considerably cheaper.
Tom
For what its worth (and that ain't much) here's a picture my rudder after preping the bottom for some coats of vinylester and then the bottom paint. I didn't put any plastic on the mahogany (left it au naturale). Its way dried out.
Kent
I'll take some measurements of that old barn door rudder.
Kent, your rudder looks good. I'm just curious because it doesnt have the two horizontal "straps"(?) on each side, spanning the boards.
A production modification?
Well, the yard got back to me.
stainless steel shaft, with a plate welded edgewise
+
marine plywood sandwiched betwen the plate
+
fiberglass wrapped around the whole thing
+
labor
+
lifting the boat 6' in the air for installation
=
$3000
So I said NO DICE. So now he is going to tell me how much to repair the rudder. A new repair may be years off now.
oh well.
-km
aka, "sell out"
S/V Beyond the Sea
C&C 35 mkIII
If that ripoff estimate isn't inspiration enough for you to do whatever it takes to learn how to build a rudder yourself, then I guess nothing will!
Rudders are easy--and inexpensive. Even factoring in a new shaft (I hesitate to quote here because prices vary so widely depending on vendor and location and quality, but a new shaft on my Triton a few years ago--including a designed bend, welded ears, and milled boltholes--was about $300), you can build a brand-new rudder yourself for about 1/10 +/- of the cost you were quoted. Obviously, the yard doesn't really want your business--too small a job, apparently, so they figure if you go for the ripoff they can make some easy money.
I favor duplicating the original construction using solid mahogany boards. But there are other ways to do it too. Do whatever pleases you.
Not only do you get to save money, but you can learn new--and apparently very valuable--skills. The only hard part is getting over any mental block you may have about jumping into the project. Again: that quote should be more than enough reason to try!
Good luck.
I replaced my rudder with a single piece of mahogany for $750 a few years ago. It fit like a glove. Beautiful piece of woodwork. Hated to paint it. I then sealed the wood with a clear penetrating sealer. If you want the name of the woodworker, let me know.
In addition to the bolts that go through the shaft into the rudder, my old rudder had three or four rods that went into the rudder horizontally from the aft end. The rudder has worked fine, with no warpage or problem of any kind = and it is still beautiful.
Remember that the Triton shares the same rudder, so that might be another source for you.
$3,000? Ykes? That is almost as bad as the Marina that wanted $3,000 to paint my stripped spars. No deal.
It isn't that I don't have the guts to try to build my own rudder.
It is that I don't seem to have them time, what with redecorating our guest bedroom as a nursery, the list of other home projects.
But we'll see how things shape up in a few months.
-km
aka, "sell out"
S/V Beyond the Sea
C&C 35 mkIII
The Triton rudder is definitely different than the one pictured above. Whether or not a rudder from a Triton could be used in place of the Ariel rudder is another question, but the shape is somewhat different--mostly at the top. Probably some minor modification would make it work if necessary, if one happened to be lying around.
As it happens, I have a spare Triton rudder here, from hull #100. It's warped and, frankly, pretty crappy, but if you're interested let me know. I have no use for it other than as a rough pattern.
In actuality the Triton rudder may be quite different in construction from the A/C. The few Triton's I've seen here are strapped rather than thru bolted. Haven't measured, but the aperture may be different, the machining reduction at the bottom of the shaft that goes into the shoe may be different, the angle of the keel/rudder may be different between the two hulls, leading to alterations in profile.
Would be good to know for the record what the actual similarities are.. And what you have to do to put a Triton rudderr on an A/C?
Making a rudder would not be too difficult if you started with an already machined shaft (and bent if you are inboard,) including whatever style bolt holes in the shaft for the blade.
I don't know of this Triton rudder is original: it had welded bronze straps bent around the shaft in a U-shape out onto the planks. Aside from the hydrodynamic problems with the straps being proud of the blade and the fastening heads, it seems this style would make it easy to replace the wood - you could almost do it with the rudder in the boat.
[This blade was very thin (about the width of the shaft: 1"), fatter wood and you'ld dap the straps in for a smoother finish. Either way, since the U-straps are right angle to the shaft, the wood would slip in or out pretty easy! I think it's a good idea.]
Last edited by ebb; 12-10-2003 at 04:30 PM.
My understanding that the two rudders were either identical or substantially the same came from Rudy (whatever his last name was) who worked for Pearson and acquired the parts inventory from Pierson when they bit the dust. I do not vouch for it myself, since he told me he didn't have any Triton rudders either.
In regard to time, the concept of stripping a used boat is a real time burner - and all you wind up with are well used parts. It is not a good deal if time is in short supply - and I speak from experience in stripping the parts off my Ariel (including the rudder).
Triton Rudder is WAAAAYYYYY Different. Way bigger, different shape, doesn't hang on the boat the same.
Just make a new one. Honest.
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