jib track placement

[Mike Goodwin]

Here you go Theis , lifelines and new tracks .

http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussi...p?threadid=173

You can see the wounds from the old tracks on deck. New track is thru bolted with a washer and a lock washer . I must warn you , getting to the nuts up in the toerail is no picnic .

[Ed Ekers]

Hey Pete,
I can't say if you would benefit but I am sure it could give you more options. As I described earlier we use the track for a couple of different set ups. Sheet leads for the 125% jib, the 150% jib, twingers for the spinnaker. Sometimes when the spin gear is not set up we will use the out board track to connect the preventer. ( I have a pre rigged system for the preventer with a big rubber band). SO the bottom line is we have options to do things that the smaller in board track could do but the sheeting angles are not proper.

I am familiar with the track system that you have. If news letter editor Mr. Bill is on board he might be able to describe how he set his genoa track up. When I switched to the long track I gave Bill my old original and I think he mounted it on #76.

Also a note to David. It might be different on a Commander but with #77 we would have preferred to run the 125 sheets in board as you describe but the leech of the sail was strapped up against the spreaders. Even with the out board lead the leech comes right to the spreader tips. Just a heads up for you. ......ed

[Bogle]

Ed,

Thanks for the heads up. I may have the same problem with inboard sheeting points for the #2, that is, the leach of the sail overlapping the spreader tips. My #2, however, is more like a 118%, but I do think it still overlaps the spreader. I was already thinking I would lead the sheet between the shrouds, but if it overlaps the spreader, this is not a solution....We'll see in the spring.

The working jib originally was lead forward of the forward lowers, and shroud rollers were installed on said lowers. The sheets rolled on them and the clew came right to the roller when close hauled. I never brought it inside that since it had sheet blocks installed at the clew which made it difficult. (That was before I installed winches.)

[Ted]

Commander Pete,

If you decide to replace only the pressboard that was under your tracks, then here is a nice solution. The product called Starboard is wonderful to work with. I replaced my original mainsheet traveler with a nice piece of (flat) stainless track from another boat. I used Starboard to put underneath it. By choosing the proper thickness and placing it between and outside (but not over) the original elevated mouting points, I did not have to modify the fiberglass in any way. One works with Starboard just like wood and it comes in various thicknesses. That is how I planned to install the jib tracks until this thread convinced me to put at least 4' tracks on and the stainless I have is only 30 inches.

Ted

[commanderpete]

Thanks, hadn't considered Starboard for that.

I was thinking of buying a sheet of fiberglass 1/4 inch thick. Then I would need to cut it to about 1/2 inch wide.

Then I would be drilling a bunch of 1/4 inch holes in it.

I was sure disaster would strike, probably when I tried bending it to fit.

[Bill]

Ditto here on track bases. On #76 we replaced the original factory teak strip under the ss track with a 1/4'' - or so - section of "phenolic" plastic (same stuff from which the original blocks were made). The Genoa track from Ed's boat became our jib track (see photo above). The original ss Genoa track remains where Pearson put it. I'll get a photo of it when it stops raining.

[mrgnstrn]

Theis - I see you have your genoa on top of the toe rail. mine is there also, but after a little exploration, i don't believe there is any reinforcement, backing plates or other on mine. What did you use. i hear horror stories (ok, maybe just one) about the track ripping out and though, "Boy that would suck, especially at that part of the deck. how do i prevent it?"

Maybe some of the others have thoughts. My preliminary thought is of the Hobie Cat 16 i still haven't sold yet. the two shrouds are attached throught the edge of the deck/hull joint. and it uses a solid rod about 2" long, with a hole drilled perpendicular-ly and the chainplate/thing threads into that. it spreads the load along the inside of the "lip" of the deck/hull joint.

Anybody know if that is a practice out there? or where to get such a thing?
thanx - km#3

attached pic:

[Tony G]

It seems to me that with the number of people here getting ready to re-do their tracks, the international mega conglomerate marine supply store of 'that other' thread should cut a deal!

[Hull376]

I'm painting the deck of 376 and have just finished removing all the deck hardware, including the tracks. And I can tell you removing the nuts from inside the toe rail was probably just as hard as it was for who ever put them there in the first place! However, inspecting the joint and top of rail has not uncovered any kind of stress or cracking. I figure if its held for 40 years, it will hold another 40. But if someone has a great idea on how to provide better backing than just using washers, I'm all ears.

[Ted]

Ok, now I sound like a broken record, but just having replaced *all* my deck hardware after painting #56, I used both aluminum plates and starboard because I had both. I much prefer the starboard - cheap and easy to work with. I plan on backing my jib tracks with that also. As for backing under the toe rail, I am not sure how bendable the starboard would be... but that is certainly where I want to put my genoa tracks.

[Theis]

Hull 376:
I purchased a 1/8" X 1" widealuminum strip , and had it drilled to match the track. The strip could be wider. The strip extends beyond the track at both ends. This strip is then the backing for the track. I used lock washers as well.

[mrgnstrn]

so if i were a bolt on your track, i would go though the track, go down a ways (empty space) before going through the Aluminium plate and then the nut?

does the AL plate fit up into the underside of the toe rail?
(plate "A" on the pic)

does one lip of it set on the underside of the deck? if so, what supports the other side? (plate "B" on the pic)

thanks a million
-km#3

[Theis]

I apologize for the poor quality of my rendition of my suggestion. I envision my best attribute might be writing prescriptions.

Recognize, I have not put the track on the toe rail, but here are my thoughts, or lack of thought, regarding the project. I am not near the boat, and haven't looked closely at it recently prior to my comments.

The toe rail is an important structural component, in my opinion. The joint between the hull and the deck is perhaps the weakest part of the Ariel, and the joining surfaces of the two components must move together. The toe rail, for example, can not be allowed to lift relative to the hull, and the top of the hull can not be forced outward without a comparable forcing of the U shaped toe rail out.

As I recall it, the inside of the toe rail is quite irregular and rough.

My suggestion is that you use an aluminum 'U" shaped channel mounted inside the toe rail (You can get this material at ACE hardware). The track bolt goes through the toe rail, between the legs of the channel, and through the bottom of the channel. Underneath the channel, use a washer and nut.

The theory is that there will be no force against the sides of the toe rail or the hull causing them to flex independently. The nut will be mounted against a flat surface and the force holding the track down distributed across THE UPPER FLAT SURFACE OF THE TOE RAIL. If the toe rail curves inward where the legs of the channel meet it, the legs will be forced inward (an advantage of aluminum is that this forming is more easily accomplished) so that, again, there will be no force causing the toe rail to flex laterally.

If the inside of the toe rail is very round, as indicated by your drawing, an aluminum bar inserted inside the toe rail instead of the channel, with the bolts passing through the bar, could serve the same function. With the bar, you might want to place a 1/8" piede of neoprene between the bar and the inside of the toe rail. The purpose of the neoprene cushioning is to avoid point contacts. The neoprene distributes the forces uniformly across a broader area.

Anyway, that is how I would do it, absent a better idea. My concern with your proposal is the stressing of the deck/hull joint. Plus, I think it might be more complicated than necessary.

Peter

[Theis]

Sorry, forgot the drawing

[mrgnstrn]

sorry Theis, i saw the picture Mike posted, read the first line and got everybody mixed up.

so my original question goes to Mike Goodwin, how did you add reinforcement to your toe-rail mounted tracks? posted above are the discussions Theis and I had when I had him mixed up with you. did you reinforce it in either of the ways we talked about (round rod with hole drilled, upside-down aluminum U-channel, etc)?

Also, would you do it that way again?

Thanks so much,

-km#3