Fruits Of My Labor (A-113)

[Tony G]

Totally bummed out. Mike at Valley Hardwood had a 5 inch thick stack of 1/8" Baltic Birch plywood that turned out to be the "wrong" stuff for what we had in mind. He stated the lumber industry has some inconsistencies. In his defense, he does an excellent job of supplying this area with hard to find exotics and a good deal of bread and butter stuff too. So we'll spend a little time this week trying to find out how much "one" sheet of plywood is going to cost to get here.

But on the up swing, here's the one piece we did have enough of the "right" stock to work with. It's funny how much of a difference 3/4" in radius makes. But these corners are a much better fit in our smaller boats.

[Tony G]

I don' get it. I put in three good days of work and these photos look like a hodge podge of pieces just cobbled together. Probably because it is just a bunch of pieces cobbled together. But it gives you an idea of what's goin' on. The port side will have the sink and an Atom Stove. The starboard side is refer and electronics. You can see where the original settees were tabbed to the hull to give you a reference point for dimensions. I had to cut holes into the aft bulkhead to accomodate the sliders in the counter top that give access to the refer and the stove.

[ebb]

In the old days we had FinnPly and RussianPly
FinnPly birch was put together with Phenolic glue.

Russian aka BALTIC birch ply is glued with urea-formaldehyde (but who knows?) and would be considered INTERIOR grade plywood. It eventually will delaminate. 'Eventually' could be very short term in a damp environment.

FinnPly was also known as AIRCRAFT grade birch plywood -phenolic-formaldehyde - EXTERIOR grade. This grade is often stamped with the panel's ID, down in a corner or on the endgrain.
It is obviously going to be more expensive.
These are both imported panels. The best grade will have BS1088 stamped on it, especially the thinner millimeter panels that are used for wooden aircraft building.

You can't use the interior baltic stuff anywhere permanently on a boat. Even encapsulated with epoxy. Beware!


However,
the Ariel douglasfir bulkheads and tabbed-on plywood cleats that Pearson used for the chainplates was/is standard exterior fir ply. Settees and other furniture may have been a similar grade but I'm not sure. In my opinion the structural plywood in A-338 was whatever HomeDepot of the '60s had in stock. Believe douglasfir is rated moderately rot resistant. And the glue had to have been urea-formaldehyde. Still MUCH better stuff than baltic ply.
Except for obvious areas of rot (chainplates) the plywood has lasted pretty good for almost a half century!
(The difference imco is that fir has resin in the fiber, while birch has sugar in the fiber, which composts and black molds immediately.)

[Tony G]

In that case, I am seriously screwed. Stem to stern. Port to starboard.

[ebb]

Can't be all bad. Here's 10 posts at
google:
Birch Plywood in boatbuilding - Boat Design Forums.

Tony, encapsulate where you can, all eight sides. (IE, the surfaces of what you are connecting both have epoxy - either cured or wet, but both.)
I've always used my laminating epoxy - but there has to be a waterborne epoxy with NO VOCs so you can work and breathe at the same time.
I'm thinking that a good primer is the way to go. But still use 2-part 100% solids for inaccessible areas that will collect damp.

MAYBE screw on epoxy-soaked flat panels so you have easier take apart access.
Go lite, thinner panels might well absorb thin epoxy into their core - and actually become rotproof.

Good paint.

Fillet ALL angles and joints. No cracks, no square joints. Make it so no water can stay in any locker. Angle bottoms to drain.
Design in VENTILATION.... Maybe even forced air. I'm using port and starboard inline blowers.

Design open lockers for air circulation.

Do all your FRAMES in less rot-prone fir or hardwood. Attach 8-side encapsulated birch ply PANELS on that. Keep bottoms away from any water collection areas.
Drain those areas. Drain Plugs.
Seadog makes tidy 1" black nylon, screw in O-ring plugs, The 'plate' for two screws is triangular - and they are nice and they are cheap. Every one of my lockers will have a drain that can be opened and closed.

Don't poison anything for mold proofing.

Favorite saying from a famous furniture maker: It's all in how you go from your last foul up to your next foul up. Foul up isn't spelled correctly here.

THERE IS ALWAYS A WAY OUT.

[Tony G]

Aside from making removable panels it sounds like the M.O. I've been following. Every edge gets coated, then allowed to cure, lightly sanded to remove any of the grain that wants to stand up and turn into a wick followed by another coat. No sanding hard enough to shape the wood done at this point unless we're going back to step one with the coating. Then at least one more coat before we bond anything together. So in reality when it comes time to tab the pieces together we're talking three applications of resin. The flat sides get the same attention because there is so much more standing grain after that first coat of epoxy.

I had used white oak for some of the framing last go around. But I've come to accept that I have a crap-load of teak and mahogany that needs to get used. I've been squirreling it away for "something" and grabbing it when ever I can find it on sale or have the weight of a few extra coins in my pocket. Everything solid from the forward locker back is teak or mahogany now.

Jeez-if we can get at least 10 good years out of her I'll be grateful...

P.s. Hey, Ebb, if you have a part number for the drain plugs that'd be great. fowlin' a

[ebb]

There are two or three Seadog drainplug models.
I have the plain all nylon ones (520010-1) which have a short collar (3/8") that fits into a 1" drilled hole.

A plug screws into the collar with a short non-snag handle and has a thick flat red washer that seats good into the fitting and sure looks like liquid would be kept from coming out or going in.
Has a couple 'legs' that loosely captures the unscrewed plug in the fitting when open so it doesn't run off down the scupper.
Standing up it looks like a cute little one-eyed robot. Smart design, imco.
Bedding surface thoughfully incise-molded to hold caulking.
Nothing much sticks/bonds to nylon, so I use non-curing always sticky butyl tape or tube to ensure a seal.

Can use polysulfide on nylon, but imco it will eventually cease to stick when rubber finally cures. That may allow disassembly, but also water to get thru.

Defender has them for $2.95.
Somebody else has them for a better price....like around $2?
Drill 1" hole - goop the fitting - push it home - add two #10 FHscrews.
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EDIT. Just came off a search (using 'the Find' engine). One outfit (never heard of) called www.northeastmarineparts.com has them (w/ a gray washer) for $1.81 - nothing on S&H. There are other makers of this type of plug - Seadog (from the pix) still looks the best.
Being plastic the plug can be altered. The legs can be snipped off to allow complete removal of plug. Or the molded 'ring' on the legs can be cut to allow the legs to be compressed for takeout. And putting back.
A locker whose bottom is where the hull is rising at an angle may need a legless plug. (snip 'em off)
On thin ply panels a backing block may be necessary to increase thickness for the screws to get some bite and also not poke thru.
Hope they work for you!
http://www.northeastmarineparts.com/...rain-plug.aspx

SeaDog Black Nylon Drain Plug - 520010-1
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Teak and white oak are truly indestructable $$$$$ marine woods.
Pearson used honduras mahogany $$ for hidden cleats/painted framing and such in A-338. May seem wasteful, but milling produces a bone pile of strange pieces that can find a place in framing and blocking. No splinters, holds fastenings good, easy to drill for fastenings, forgiving, doesn't warp, smells good, hand planes easy, glues good, doesn't need epoxy soaking, rot resistant, yabbadabbadoo! Love the stuff.
Next to walnut, it's a great treat to work with the highest regarded furniture wood of all time.
Never see a rudder or cockpit coamings made with walnut. Orchard walnut is probably just as durable as honduras and spectacular grained.
Asked a yacht designer why we never see it on boats - he said, it is 'unlucky'. Never verified that.

[Tony G]

Thanks for the links, Ebb. Sometimes I keep going back to the same old haunts. Even though they've served my needs well, we are stuck with the same old choices for products and limitations.

Well here's a first. I recieved a 4 x 8 foot sheet of plywood in the mail (UPS actually) today while out to lunch...

[Commander 147]

Tony

Looks like you found bending plywood. My wife does custom window treatments and I've used it to build some things for her in her business. What are you planning on using it for? Even bending plywood will only go so small on a radius before it wants to break.

[Tony G]

We found some that wasn't outrageously expensive to purchase and ship. It is just going to be cabinet corners below. I think we can tease it into the jig with less trouble than the baltic birch. Then it will either get scarfed into the flat panels or joined in some fashion suitable. It isn't structural by any means but I'll give it the "fall against" test just the same. That's where I pretend I lost my balance and give it a nearly painful hip check once it is in place. Hey, it's going to happen sooner or later!

I grew up inder a sewing machine! Even when she worked outside the house for a number of years, my mom has been a seamstress all her life. She has her work hanging in three countries. No kidding! From a little podunk town in Northern Minnesota! Kewl stuff, you and your wife.

[Tony G]

Wood update...
Mike, at Valley Hardwood will get either marine grade fir plywood or meranti for me (and any other local nut-jobs) after the first of the year. I don't know what caused the change, but, not having to put the extra attention into the panel faces will be nice. The edges will still get two coats of epoxy though.

[Commander227]

Tony,
Have you looked into MDO plywood for your interior stuff? My understanding is that it was designed for outdoor signs and such. Waterproof glue, no voids, the big Menards carry it, pretty cheap, nice stuff.
Lund use it for the floor in their aluminum boats. We use it for all sorts of stuff.

[Tony G]

Mike,
I had no idea MDO had those kind of specs. I realized last winter what a good product it is by comparison to a lesser alternative. Several years ago we used it on the outfeed table and it has held up remarkably. In fact, I feel I am forced to scrap the MDF I used on the miter saw/router stand and replace it with MDO just because there is such a HUGE difference between the two products (what was I thinking?!?!)
But, I struck a deal for the meranti or marine fir and we will have to keep our word. I do sincerely apreciate the offering though.

Hey, Happy Holidays to all of you!

[Tony G]

We had some unseasonably warm weather here the last two days and being I had today off it was a must to at least get out to the shop for a couple of hours. Made a couple of new models to see how things fit and get a feel for them in 3D. trying out a new variation on the toerail and it's growing on me. It is another inch taller than the original "design" (to use the term loosely) giving a more pleasing look and a bit more safety.

Lately I have been trying to find a design for a new mast head. There doesn't seem to be one out there that will drop into the top of our extrusion that isn't just a cast replacement. So I'll conceed to having one welded that can be bolted in place. That will open up some options. Any way I cut it, it looks as though we will end up shortening the fore and back stays a couple of inches. I knew we would have to put a new end on the forestay to install the profurl so it's no big deal to do the backstay too. Then I thought we could raise the upper shroud tang attachment point about 3.5" being the chainplates are going to be about that much higher. That puts the stays and shrouds up at the top of the mast for more stability.

The one question have is will 6061 T6511 be dissimilar enough from 6061 T6 to cause corrosion issues? I don't want to have the fitting welded to the top of the mast. Transporting the mast would be a pain and I don't think I really want to pay the welder to come to me. That seems like an unnecessary expense at the premium they charge. Any ideas out there? Chime in, please.

[Rico]

Nice Job Tony! I have masthead envy!
Since you are going to the trouble of fabbing a new masthead, you can give yourself the luxury of good attaachment points for your kites and smart access (for a tricolor, & instruments perhaps?). I know I am typically against electronic toys, but proper room for them makes the idea very tempting!

Re: your question; The additional numbers are post manufacturing processes for the alloy... You should have no issues at all with corrosion.
For reference:
http://www.alcoa.com/adip/catalog/pd...Alloy_6061.pdf