Anchor roller

[Bill]

If you have not already, you might want to review the "New Anchor" thread at:

http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussi...ead.php?t=1295

[Tim D.]

If you have not already, you might want to review the "New Anchor" thread at:

http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussi...ead.php?t=1295

Is that the one where everybody dies in the end ?

(sorry couldn't help myself )

[jan nikolajsen]

Oh no. Another 10+ page thread I have to read. Will I get anything done this weekend?

Since I started thinking about this Ariel I have basically sat in front of the computer.....

[ebb]

Me too, always at the computer.....
And I also get off on the sculpture of an anchor!!!

That's why I like the curved sweeps of the Supreme
over the busy self-conscious design of the Rocna.
I can be persuaded that these rollbar anchors both set well and immediately.
BUT the CLEAN lines of the Supreme just appeal to me.
To me an excellent example of FORM following FUNCTION.


Here, to increase your reading load (97 posts, 32 guys) is a forum worth looking at - it appears more literate than most - but remember, there is no accounting for a poster's opinion based on an anchor site's hype (notably Rocna, but the Raya is coming on strong!) These are guys for the most part using these anchors.

google> Rocna or Manson Supreme?? - Yachting and Boating World Forums
www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t... - United Kingdom

[commanderpete]

I didn't see that thread right away ebb. Here's another

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread...ighlight=rocna

That place seems like a good, busy forum, but the anchor threads everywhere sound about the same to me.

I was thinking (yet again) about getting the Manson about a year ago. This place seemed to have the best price at that time

http://www.newjsi.com/detail.aspx?ID=1966

I just don't do any adventurous anchoring. When I go to West Marine to look at the Manson it seems to be an enormous heavy beast. A good thing I suppose

[Commander 147]

Ebb

Did you ever come up with a solution to the bow roller for the Manson Supreme? That is the anchor you were looking at isn't it?

[c_amos]

I have had my Windline URM-3 on the bow of Faith with excellent results.

The Manson likes it, the bail clears well, and the anchor sits on it nicely.

The curve of the anchor rides on the front of the roller when the rode is tensioned (secured)... this picks up the tip of the anchor nicely, and cuts down on the rattle / clanging that can happen in rough conditions.



I thought I had put that in this thread, but must have missed that.

[Commander 147]

Craig

Thank you very much for that info. I just read your other post about the way you have all the deck hardware set up also. I'm always looking forward to the projects that remain for Destiny and now that I'm figuring things out for the cabin I'm looking towards my deck recore and what I want to do at the bow for my anchor. I figure while I'm doing the deck recore is a good time to put in place what I need for a bow roller also. Thank you very much.

[ebb]

Swear I will get a photo of the roller model for a 25lb Supreme.
Words are useless and so may be the model. Had second thoughts and sidetracked on whether an aluminumm plate roller could be done.
Anyway the model is photogenic and I will get it out somewhere for the curious.

It proposes two clear amber polyurethane V-rollers from a boat trailor supply. $8 each.
They are positioned at the end of a channel like the UMR-3 but the rollers are below the level of the channel.
The top roller closest to the channel has its V-groove below the channel.
When the anchor is brought all the way into the channel the rollers become snug in the curve of the shank. The anchor cannot move pulled against the roller wheels. They ride on 1/2" bolts.
The upper part of the anchor shank is fairly straight and sits flush in the channel bottom.
The end of the channel (instead of petering out like the UMR-3) bumps up into twin radiused ends.
Through these ears a couple of over-size side to side holes that correspond to the two shackle holes in the shaft
of the Supreme.
One of those holes corresponding to the slide, of course.
Using one of these you can immobilize the anchor with a clevis pin through the channel - even with an anchor shackle seized to the anchor! Thanks to the two hole option Manson designed into the shaft end of the Supreme.
This is another feature that makes the Supreme unique.
Because the fluke curves around the rollers, and the shank locked with a through pin (or lashed) imco
NOTHING WILL MOVE THIS ANCHOR OFF THIS ROLLER.

In theory a pin thru the anchor and channel sides could be rigged to be pulled remotely to 'self launch' the anchor.
Nearly all the anchor weight is outboard so even with a tightly housed anchor yanking the pin lets the anchor go. That's an assumption, of course.

If I get the pic out I'd very much like feedback. This is only an 'idea' at the moment.
Seriously considering welding up a working model in mild steel and galvanizing rather than messing with aluminum!!!

[c_amos]

FWIW,

I did a search twice for threads with 'roller' in the title... this thread did not come up???

[Commander 147]

Ebb

I think I'm following you but a picture as they say is worth a thousand words. If you post it I will give you my thoughts.

[ebb]

Our mighty chief cybernaut now has some shots of the Supreme roller model.

Don't know how they managed to email, don't know where they will show up, or when!

....then we'll see what for? (drum roll segue here)

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________________
"A tree is a tree, how many more of them do you need to look at?"
Ronald Regan

[Bill]

Here are some photos from Ebb. He will explain . . .

[ebb]

THANKS AGAIN BILL!!!


Can be seen in the second pic that this anchor roller is in complete agreement with the anchor, if I say so myself
The dowel 'bolts' show where the rollers are.
The upper roller is right there at the end of the channel bottom. Its flat-bottomed V-groove just lower than the channel.
The second roller is very close to its mate with just enough room for a piece of right angle to be welded in between them.
This means rigidity is independant of the roller bolts.
Off the shelf rollers can be swapped out easily without altering anything.
Pipe sockets for the 'adjustable' line-keeper-loop add stiffness and fairlead to the long edge of the face.
The drop of the line is taken entirely by the lower wheel which makes a nice smooth plastic lead at almost any angle.
No metal - as the line is normally cradled in the V groove of the round rimmed roller. If it's pulled up out of the roller the line will lead against the pipe pieces. Smoother than any chock I've ever seen.

Width of the channel is dictated by the width of the wheels.
(Have seen narrower upscale$$$ rollers, but a certain width is needed to get the anchor shackle to slide easy in the channel.)
If you had to sail with the Supreme in the channel, a couple pieces of closedcell foam on either side of the shank would keep the anchor quiet. On a piece of line they would just popout and remain as the anchor is launched.


You will note that the clevis pin looks like an acid brush.
Actually it's a model of a dual purpose pin that can be used to clean mud out of the chain links as they come aboard.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~


Later EDIT: About the Supreme: Around the time Mantus anchor was making a splash,
I had a conversation with a presenter at the boat show Mantus tent. He pointed out that
his Mantus' fluke is beveled on the top of the digging edges. And Supreme is not. Turns
out it was a bloody revelation. Shook me that I had to be shown to see where I was blind.

A couple of years ago I spent time looking at the remaining anchors that had become
popular, and were somewhat attainable or popular in Europe.
In 2014 I erupted on the New Generation Anchor site... When I realized finally that what
we had was very suspicious, anchor testing was skewed or badly designed. That there is no
way to grade an anchor by its looks. All anchors get better the heavier they are, but smaller
cruising boats that require boat saving anchors, have to err on the lighter side -- and therefor
must rely on particularly well designed anchors. I'm susceptible to being influenced by the
authoritarian hype that sells an anchor.

Time passes, look more soberly at the Manson Supreme, which does well in the usual
bottoms videos use to show anchoring prowess in sand and mud, mostly. That the Mantus
guy said: "Manson Supreme is chamfered (sharpened) on the wrong side." killed the fan in
me once and for all. Immediately began thinking of ways to improve my Supreme. ...and
concluded it wasn't possible, even tho I had clear images of the upgraded hook. I then
looked balefully at the Mantus and discovered it too could use stream lining. Which I could
do if I was 40years younger...

Supreme, if it drags in grass, will gather the grass in its hoop. This has been reported by
owners. The way out is to cut the roll bar off. Mr. Fixit says: make the roll bar an accessory.
Have cups where bar is now, slip a light, smaller diameter version into the cups, fasten with
clevis pins. The present roll-bar takes tip weight away, and may be the reason the anchor
skips along when towed in competitor videos.

Remove the triangular welding brackets under the blade. Proven to self that for a blade to
penetrate multiple bottoms, it must be free and clear. If the roll is kept, it should be
lighter and have any gusseting on top, and aligned so as not to catch detritus or bottom.
The blade on top must open up even further to shed sticky material. Mantus is flat with
wide open bends. I still enjoy the looks of the Supreme. But to me it's dated now.
Extra metal that creates the slide on the shaft could be designed away, making the fluke
even more willing to dive in. Doubtful that a cruiser will use a sliding shackle, ever!

The back of the fluke should be rounded so that when dropped it will not stand upright
and get chain entangled. There should be a retrieval hole to attach a float.
This cruising version of the Supreme could be lighter and dive in immediately. More
stream lined, actually next size heavier, and still be stowable as the primary.

[Commander 147]

Ebb

It is obvious you design things in a manner similar to me. That is Function first followed by durability of design and finally by form.

Your design seems to address many of the issues a good roller should and I especially like the locking pin/chain cleaner at the end of the shank. I also agree that once pinned this anchor is not going anywhere. That is after all the most important job the roller has. All of the other things it needs to do are for convience.

You did ask for feed back though so here goes.

1.) Tell me what your thoughts were for putting the top roller below the surface of the channel. In my way of thinking by moving that roller up to say 1/4" or 3/8" above the bottom of the channel you do a couple of good things. One you get the steel shank of the anchor off the bottom of the metal channel and reduce the potential for clanking. It also reduces the amount of steel rubbing against steel in the channel which could create burrs that would chafe the anchor rode. And finally it gets the anchor rode off the end of the channel when the anchor is deployed and reduces again chafe.

2.) Have you tried to rock the anchor back and forth when it is pinned like it would while sailing? Is it possible for the anchor flukes or shaft to hit the metal sides of the roller? If so you may want to tweek the dimension so it cannot hit and cause damage to the galvanizing on the anchor itself and cause that irritating clanking. I also like your bent rod line keeper but again if the anchor can contact the metal sides of the roller then you may need to move it a little further aft in order to reduce the sides of the roller assy. height and still have a place to attach it.

As you can tell from my comments above I believe when the anchor is in place the only metal to metal contact that should be made is the pin through the end of the shank. And even while launching and retreiving a minimum of metal to metal contact should be designed in as best as possible.

You obviously designed the roller around the dimensions of the anchor but for my own curiousity what are the overall dimensions of the roller assembly?

Due to the shape of the assembly you would need to make it either by casting it or by a welded assembly. You could easily due it out of aluminum as a welded assembly.