There are times when you have to get up the mast right away.
Mostly you'd wait for a calm day to get up there to straighten the windex or change a bulb.
Have we had this discussion here? Can't find it on Search.
There's the bosun's seat and a number of propriatory versions - always requiring TWO people, one more trustworthy than the other. There are rope and strap ladders that you haul up the sail track. And an erector-set metal ladder that you stack on your sailtrack. And a winch you haul up on the mainsheet halyard that you haul yourself up with. These all suppose that you have the main's track available.
These methods all generated famous expressions containing the phrase:
Your life is hanging on a line.
Climbing the mast is becoming more daunting for me. It's basicly not a safe or easy endeavor. It's also the origin of another well known expression: PITA.
Made a rilly cool Hervey Garret Smith continuous rope ladder once
that my feet hated. The problem was that if you had to spend time up there it was on one foot.
And bought Capt Somebody's nylon strap (halyard) ladder that needed two hands and both knees to hold on to the mast with - couldn't DO anything once up there.
OK, Does anybody on this Forum have mechanical mast climbing steps attached to their mast?
Recently got two folding steps to look at. One is aluminum and twice as heavy as the glass-filled nylon one that has recently come on the market.
These folding steps are open sided of course - in contrast to closed steps that capture your foot. They come in various forms as well, usually stainless,
in strap and rod. These have all been skinnyed down in the interest of weight and windage to the point that, if you had these permanently installed steps, they be available at any time to climb and it's hard to imagine the blind pop rivets holding with the body being thrown around while clinging for dear life. Good lord, five closely spaced rivets hold the nylon step to the mast, and it's SO EASY to imagine wrenching one off!
It's amazingly difficult to imagine my foolish life hanging on glass-filled nylon step. But it's what I would go with unless somebody can talk me out of it?
Anybody installing permanent steps? If not why not? If you are, what have you chosen?
I have an ATN Topclimber, which does not require a second person to use safely. I can't say that it is particularly easy to get to the top, but what really impressed me was how safe I felt (and I'm not a big fan of heights). My son once spent over an hour at the top of the mast installing a wind vane. The Topclimber is not cheap and you can assemble essentially the same unit with climbing gear for less.
Hey AL, howzit going?
Just accessed the site. And I remember now seeing this climber at the boatshow over the years.
But, you know, what gets me is the pictures of that tuff old bird doing rock climbing stuff facing AWAY from the mast. Maybe protecting certain irreplacable parts!
I says to myself: that's the way a trawler captain climbs his radar array to reposition a stereo speaker.
They've never seen fit to fix this image, it's been there for years, like how NOT to climb your mast.
OK, MAYBE, on a windless day in the marina, or at a boat show.
I seem to remember someone on a cruiser forum recommending upgrading the ropeclamps on the ATN - by going to an REI store for the gear. Was there also concern about what these clamps do to the line??
There's also my personal psychologic imperitive: THE LINE'S TOO THIN.
I dunknow, 1/2" line seems too skinny. Like recommended 1/2" anchor rode is way too skinny. There's a limit to what my eye is willing to accept.
Glad it works for you. And that you have #1 son to climb it!
I remember a billion years ago looking up the rope hanging in the West Islip School still swaying from the kid befor me who had shinnied up to the beam and down again in 5 seconds. I got up about 10 feet and dropped. Always figured I have heavy bones. Never could haul my butt. But I was the neighborhood tree climber. I like climbing when there's plenty to hang on to AND plenty to stand on.
A mast designed like an eiffel tower would be more like it.
On the billdietrich site (I don't think this is a forum) a bunch of guys chime in with their experiences with different gear. One thing stands out for me is the recommendation that doubling up systems is a good way to go. You could have the MastLift, a decent bosun's chair or rockclimber's harness, AND some sturdy steps.
Many cruisers find it hard to trust a bought piece of gear and make their own up, the ATN gear is discussed on the site above. The (SwissTech cannister MastLift is talked about on both sites above. It definitely has my interest as I never did climb that rope, even with knots in it, and generally proved miserable at most athletics from that day til now.
The point is: how does someone besides Brion Toss get up the mast, somebody that has no business up the mast. Maybe because you've gotten older and you aren't athletic, you know you can't go up there but you GOT to, because BOTH halyards are broke, can't get the MastLift up there either, and........
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I see Yves Gelinas (Cape Horn Vane) Jean-du-Sud an Alberg 30: has invented some removable mast steps. I haven't seen them BUT, You have to have open holes already drilled in your mast. You'd have to carry them up with you fitting them in and then remove them on the way down. They are installed upside down in my opinion and seem incredibly dangerous. Must be designed for cruiser athletes. WuduIknow. Guess you could have a cordless drill and a bag of gelinasteps for backup.
Perhaps you could use one of these ideas with a couple of strategically placed steps for specific "work areas" up the mast (i.e. towards the top of the mast and just below the spreaders) to avoid adding too much weight aloft or halyard "snaggers"? Then you'd have nice firm footing where you need it most for longer stays aloft.
I would think some sort of safety line around the mast, to keep you from swinging away, especially if it's really snotty out and you're not in a nice anchorage...
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Perhaps you could use your topping lift as a messenger line to raise your dedicated and heavier duty "climbing" line up and through the masthead. Then reverse the process when you're done. Your "dedicated" line could have loops or steps or whatever to make it easier to climb already attached...
Would like to invite mbd Mike, Ariel 109 Ben, and pbryant over here to continue their discussion on
mast climbing that generated from pbryant's new tabernacle thread: "tabernacled mast operation..."
Using a Kliemheist knot ON THE POLE is probably the most stripped down version of getting up a mast I've seen.
The drill would be to still use one or two halyards for safety backups. Ciorrect?
THAT makes it very interesting and somehow safer not dangling from a piece of string.
Klemheist sliding knots* need a sail down bare mast to be used.
I can't figure it out, but the climber would also need stirrups.....what's the method?
You'd still need for safety to be connected with an ascender (or klemheist or prusic) to a halyard tensioned from the foot of the mast to the masthead.
How are the feet rigged for the pole climb?
On Rope 1 www.onrope1.com
has an OR1 Mast Climber Ropewalker using a Mitchell Climbing System $438 (don't let that stop you from at least looking).
You can use this gear with any halyard** - with the sail up.
"Fastest most efficient climbing system - average person 100 feet in two minutes." That's to our masthead from the deck in 40 seconds flat! Hey! Beat that!
My self is as far from rope walking as you can get. This stuff is for younger women and men.
BUT it is necessary imco for any skipper to have on board the means to get up the mast in an emergency.
Needs to be absolutely secure, absolutely sure, with redundant safety as part of the method.
Lowering the mast using the tabernakcle is not an emergency option
- altho it is a very good thing to know and to have practiced.
Some SantaCruz sailors dip their mast to go under a bridge everytime they sail out and in Monterey Bay. I see my method requiring a calm windless day and a whole plate of concentration - or is that consternation?
With the OR1, as described, it's possible to see an older guy using the 'double chest roller' (holds the climber close to the Dyneema) for "hands free" work on the mast.
And this option has to be rigged for the singlehander. And be intuitive and safe to use in a stress situation by the average klutz.
I want to see the OR1 being used! A demo video of the whole process would do nicely.
And that goes for the Kliemheist mast walking system too.
Mike's idea of a matched pair of (folding) steps for spreader work - and another set for the masthead - sounds good!
Would like comments...
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*http://www.animatedknots.com/klemheist/index.php
Slide and Grip Knots
Kleimheist is a Prusik knot derivitive identical to Ashley's vertical pole loop according to this site.
This sliding knot can also be used on rope. The knots are individual pieces of gear that are made from a circle or grommet of rope.
**Rope climbing ascenders have teeth that grip the rope. OR1 implies their ascenders won't destroy the rope when descending as others with more aggressive teeth do.
These devices are known for eating rope. A Dyneema halyard is probably too expensive to be chewed up just to adjust the windex.
Ebb, sorry didn't see that you moved the discussion over here until tonight. Like that knot tying animation site, thanks.
As I understand one of the Klemheist knots is for a stirrup and the other is for a climbing harness. One would put their weight onto the stirrup knot and slide the climbing harness knot up the mast. Then transfer ones weight to hanging from the climbing harness knot and pulling up and raising the height of the stirrup knot. Up the mast you go. To get around the spreaders and other obstructions one would need to tie more stirrup and harness knots above the obstacles and transfer to them as one would ascend and descend. Flat nylon webbing I believe grips a smooth aluminum mast better than a round rope but I'd bet they'd both work.
I need to go up and attach a spinnaker halyard swivel block and windex sometime this winter.
A rope ladder is a coot climbing device made with knots and wraps in a single line.
I used a Hervey Garrett Smith, Marlinspike Sailor, rope ladder made to his instructions on a wooden mast once.
Only made the one - I saw that some improvements had to be made to this unique idea.
Ladders are intuitive, yet this one had difficulties.
The problem I had with this looks-like-a-ladder rope ladder is that only one foot
could be put into a step. The rope rung would collapse with the climbers weight and close the ladder around the foot.
My feet are very uncomfortable with a narrow bar cross the instep. Even with shoes on rope, wood or tube.
Standing on one leg while working is also very tiring.
I agree, working at the spreaders or the masthead two horizontal steps are needed.
You can call em sissy steps or geezer or coot steps but they are part of the system.
However, the H.G.Smith rope ladder is very salty and a great project.
Want someday (still have the original) to make a 'next generetion' rope ladder with some kind of stiffner incorporated in the step so that it won't collapse around the foot.
And so that two feet can be placed side by side on a step. Every step!
Others who have made or used this ladder complain that it can't be tensioned like a single line.
Climbing the original, I would be flopping over port and starboard away from the mast at every leg up.
That was partially solved by using sail ties and loosely lashing the ladder every five feet to the mast while going up.
The ladder could also twist while climbing. I ended up tying each rope leg to P. and S. chain plates in an attempt to make it more stable. So there were problems that needed rfisxing - but I do like the concept very much!!! Feel safer with a lot of stuff to grab on to.
Any system will need a failsafe block or sheeve at the top of the mast.
I think the big sheeve that sits in the mast is the safest,
but there has to be other ways.....?
Monster cheek blocks at the masthead would conceivably allow a rope ladder to be hauled up on the front of the mast all sails flying.
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Does this look interesting to anyone? www.knotandrope.com
cursor Rope Ladders - rope ladder step. Each step is two clamps screwed on 1/2" braid with a rung that slides on the rope. $15 a step. This coot ladder could be a hoot!
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Here's the source site. They make ladder rung clamps (& all sorts of gizmos) inn 1/2" and 5/8" rope size.
I can see this ladder step paired with Samson Deep Six for compact stowing. www.ezty.com
I climb (mountaineer) as part of my job. For a very modest price (<$100) you can build a very capable and safe climbing rig that will get you to the top of your mast and keep you there in relative comfort for long enough to complete repairs.
The technique is called jumaring (or jugging), and is accomplished with a harness (though I have used a "riggers belt" in the past) 2 ascenders, a few carabiners, and a few 2m lengths of 1" tubular webbing. I will not go into details as to the technique, as I do not want to encourage anyone to attempt it without proper instruction, but if you were to go to your local climbing center and explain what you were trying to do you could be quite proficient in a few hours.
Properly performed the technique is not strenous, and is very safe, utilizing redundant ascenders. It will not damage your halyard (assuming that you aren't climbing the mast several times a day), and is easily accomplished alone in all conditions (though in heavy seas you may need an additional piece of webbing to hold you to the mast to prevent being hurled about).
PS - In order to get back down you will need a descender of some sort. There are too many types to list...
Midnight was upon me aboard the boat I was delivering. My crew was snoring in his bunk, and my deck hand had already been sent home since he did not work out....
I could hear conch horns being blown and the occasional fire cracker, so I went out on deck where the 60' mast seemed to summon me.
My last act of 2010 was to climb the mast. I begun 2011 aloft surveying Boot Key Harbor in Marathon...
If both halyards are broken you might have to use the klemheist knot - personally, I'd try levitation.
A Mitchell rig is indeed a very fast climbing rig. It also is the best down-climbing rig that I have used. The drawback in using it for mast climbing is that the upper ascender can only be raised to a position a couple inches below the top of the rope that you are climbing. This is because ascenders need to tavel up the rope a short distance to release the cam when you want to remove it or slide it down the rope. Also, there is a roller or chest box below the upper ascender. What does this mean? If you are climbing the main halyard your head will be at about the height of the main sheave. It is tough working on your masthead from that position. Possible though.
For caving and mast climbing I use a frog system - also developed by cavers. It has a lower attachment point than the Michell. The Frog does not down-climb well so I generally change over to a rapel device and enjoy the ride down.
DEBASER sir, can we see some pics of your system, please!
I think I got onto a caver's site where there was a detailed comparison of Mitchell and frog systems.
There were diagrams comparing the two and a pro-and-con list. But the P&C list was specific to caving and my brain didn't compute. And stupidly I didn't download.
One con for the Mitchell was that the ascent wasn't reversable - you couldn't descend without
unhooking or rerigging something.
I had to agree with the reviewer that it was dangerous.
So I thought I'd visit REI to see what they have to familiar myself with some of the basics. I didn't get there yet. Mast climbing and mast descending is equally important.
And equally dignified.
I came upon a video showing the Mitchell being used.
The guy walked the rope with small quicksteps. It looked like a rather busy way to not gain very much height.
It may have been a training video - it certainly wasn't a method to get up 30 feet in 40 seconds!
Imco walking back down, not repelling, is the safest way for amateurs and infrequent users of mast climbing gear.
My focus is absolute safety for anybody - even coots
- to go the top and back again.
Safety, of course, but just as important is the ease of the exercise.
There are many ways and many products to get you to the top, which only goes to show it's an ongoing difficult problem.
Is there one better than ALL the others?
Curiously, I believe the Mitchell, or frog or whatever does seem safer than even a MastWalker ladder which I still might prefer.
Mostly because I think grasping with the hands is prefered over depending on a manufactured gizmo like the ascender. But I don't know the equipment.
As to getting to a position above the masthead (that's a good point!) a couple of folding steps, or maybe a permanently mounted pair of strap steps that hold the feet to the mast, that you could climb up onto
would be the way to go. What it does to the climbing gear and harness used to get to the steps, I don't know. Do you have to disengage the ascenders eg.
But if there is a way, a fairly simple and intuitive way, I think many people would like to know.
Getting up and down in one piece on a dark rainy night......
Climbing The Mast
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Originally Posted by Ariel 109
