Trailer Discussions

[c_amos]

Home built solution


Years before I bought my Ariel, a good friend bought one (243). The boat was about 70 miles from his home, and needed enough work that it was going to have to live in his back yard for a while.

The solution we came up with, and executed, was to build a cradle out of 4x4's and 2x6's so that the foot print would perfectly align with a U-Haul tandem axle car trailer's skids.

Basically it is a large box with no top. There are two uprights on each side, and it was very heavily constructed. We fit the pads to the end of each arm and covered them with carpet. The marina held it on the lift for about 30 min while we fit the pads to the hull, and then set the boat into the cradle.

The only draw back to this arrangement was that the tow vehicle had to be pretty substantial. The trailer is 3400#, the cradle was at least 500#, and of course the boat is 5500-6000#. The trailer has surge brakes, so that is taken care of. My F-250 pulled it with no problem.

Of course this post is only intended to give ideas, I am not proposing that any sane person would ever try this. It worked for us though, and the boat has been sitting in that same cradle for several years.


Removing the cradle

We jacked up the cradle using bottle jacks placed between the skids. Then 1" pipes were placed under the skids and the cradle was lowered onto the pipe 'rollers'. The cradle was tied to a fence post, and the trailer was SLOWLY pulled forward and cinder blocks were placed under it as it hung off. Really no harder then setting up a trailer, or a mobile storage shed.



It sounds like a PITA, but it really was not too bad. The credit for the engineering goes to my buddy, the only problem we had in the move was when he pit a boring bit into his ankle. The cradle was quite overbuilt, and we took our time on the trip and unloading it so I really don't think it was overly dangerous.

.

The one quote we got before the move was over 2 grand, and we did it for about $250.

http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussi...1&d=1087963284

[commandertobe]

Thanks Craig. I've seen your creation before. If memory serves me, I think in your initial post you made yourself sound less cautious than in this one! Thanks for the clear directions. That may be the best option. Would love a recreation of Tony G's trailer, but that would likely exceed the price of my boat.
I have the 2x6-based cradle plans in the manual - I can make some modifications to fit the U-Haul. If your plans are on paper somewhere, more information is never (OK, let's say *generally* not) a bad thing. I am specifically interested in the pads which seem to be designed rotate and snuggle up to the hull.
Just checked the U-Haul site and the max capacity for their trailer is 4000lbs - my trip is 300 miles or so vs. your 70. Hummm. I'll look around for other vendors and post what I find.
Kyle

[joe]

I paid $ 3500.00 to have Sirocco moved from Annapolis to Claremore Oklahoma by J. O. Hudson boat mover. Service was EXCELLENT!!

[commandertobe]

Search on "transport" to find threads in which this was discussed. As I recall, there was a posting that reported lower mileage costs than your quotes, but maybe that was due to longer distances.

You speak the truth...
from one of the shippers:

"Kyle,four bucks a mile is high dollar but, most of your boat haulers dont like to do short 250 mile runs like this because it makes it very hard to make money in one day of loading and unloading. most all of our drivers average 800 miles per day on regular loads (long hauls) take that times 1.35 per mile they make and you have a daily average for a big rig in one day. hope this helps explan the four bucks per mile qoute. thanks."

[c_amos]

A friend drove down from NC this week, towing the trailer for his Flicka. We spent the better part of the day yesterday trying many various methods not involving a helicopter to get 'Faith' out of the water and onto his trailer.

There is a really nice ramp where I keep my boat, used to be a seaplane ramp... goes WAY out into the water so there was no fear of driving off the end.

The Flicka draws 3'3" so the trailer was pretty close to set up (just extended the pads up a bit).

The trailer has an extend able tongue (8' or so), and the keel bed it pretty low. Even so, if I had backed the truck (84 F-250HD Diesel 4x4) any farther I would have had to replace the cd player in the dash!

I mounted a bow eye on Faith to be able to attach an anchor snubber to. This allows us to anchor with a very small swing circle (I think I posted it in another thread). It was a good place to attach the wench to. We pulled, and pulled, and wenched and backed in farther...

After 2 hours we had the first 3" of the keel (below the cut away) on the trailer. I think that both of us pretty much knew that things were not going to work out but since he had driven hundreds of miles to do this we kept trying things....

About the only thing that we did not try was to release the trailer and let it down the ramp on a chain. If we had it either would have worked or gotten hopelessly stuck part way up.

Maybe it would have worked with a steeper ramp, or a silly toungue extension (like 12-14')

Just a bit of added intel (or lack of) for the knowledge base.

You will note that he is in Oklahoma , not much tide range there .
I have seen a new , 1998 , Ford F-250 4wd , pulled backward when trying to ramp launch a 6000lb ( combined trailer and boat ) load on a steep, wet ramp . It stopped when there was about 2.5 feet of water in the cab .
The draft of the Pearson will require the trailer to be near 6 feet under water before she floats .
Draw that out to keep the truck wheels out of the water and you have a tongue length on the trailer of near 25' ( unless of course you can roll it down at low tide , un-hitch , move vehicle beyond tide line and wait for boat to float off )
Not many places in the US where that can happen .
You are lucky in Maine to do this , but luck has it's downside , your summer is only a week long .;>)

[Neil]

Hi,
I asked my questions in a new post, and it should have been asked here.

This is my first post and I am the proud owner of an Ariel (#378). I am in the middle or about 2/3 of the way through a restoration project. Mostly I want to get it sail-able and slowly do a total remodel of the interior. My goal is to get it in the water this year. You may have read last fall about my trying to sell my boat on Craig's List. I was discouraged about how slow things were going so I thought I would sell it. A retired gentleman came over to look at it, he had built his own 35' sailboat from a kit. He thought the Ariel was a really nice well made boat and instead of buying it, he convinced me to keep it and get it in the water!
I have read a number of threads where people have discussed trailering Ariels. They didn't seem to go into detail on whether anyone has experience launching and retrieving an Ariel. My Ariel sits on a heavy duty homemade trailer that I am considering modifying to be able to launch on a ramp. These are the things I am considering doing to make launching possible:
*A channel to guide the keel into so as to keep it centered on the trailer.
*Bunk type boards to tie the six supports together to also help guide the boat on the trailer.
*A winch and support to hold the boat on the trailer when taking the boat out of the water.
* Either a tongue extension or the use of a chain to guide it in and out of the water.

My question? How deep a ramp do you think I will need to find?
Am I missing anything in my plan?
I appreciate you guys experience. I have cruised the web site often and have patterned my restoration on what I have learned from you guys and Lackey's excellent site.
Thanks for reading my wandering post,

[Commander 147]

Neil

I to plan to launch my commander from a trailer I had built. I should tell you that I have not done so yet because I am in the middle of a refit. However my trailer was built by the guys at Sail Trailer in Georgia and these guys launch and retrieve boats like ours all the time from the trailer they build. The things they suggested I do which I did to make the trailer work for ramp launching were as follows.

1.) I had a 20' tongue extension built. This extension has a small axle with two wheels and a ball hitch on one end and a coupler on the other. The axle and wheels keep the trailer tongue from dropping down when using the extension.

2.) In addition to the 6 adjustable pad supports that support the hull there is also located at the waterline a v-shaped support that keeps the boat from going too far forward and supports the bow.

3.) I have two keel guides that start up high on the aft most pad supports and slope down as they go forward to guide the keel onto the trailer.

4.) I had a combination adjustable mast support and winch support made that sits on the front of the trailer that has ladder rungs on it to get to the winch.

5.) I had skid brackets made that bolt to the bottom of the trailer frame and sit just in front of the forward axle. If the trailer falls off the end of the ramp these skid plates allow the trailer to be pulled back up onto the ramp without dislodging the axle.

6.) I had them use drop down axles that allowed the boat to sit closer to the pavement which would allow launching and retrieving in less water depth.

As far as water depth needed to launch and retrieve in I'm told it is best if I can use a ramp that is approx. 1 foot deeper than the distance from the pavement to the waterline when the boat is on the trailer. In my case that dimension is 65". So for me the ramp should be 77" deep where my forward axle sits on it. And that is why the 20' long extension.

Hope this helps.

[Neil]

Thanks Jerry for your reply,
What you are said makes a lot of sense. I can't quite picture what the skid plates look like. I think the idea of having the channel taller at the back of the trailer is a good idea, considering it will be deeper in the water back there. I also like the idea of having a mast support attached to the trailer rather than supported on the boat, and the tongue extension that attaches to where the hitch ball is.
Neil A378

[Commander 147]

Neil

Here is a picture of the skid plates. They allow the trailer frame to rise up at the end of the ramp as the tire approches and let the center of the tire hit the end of the ramp instead of the top of the tire. That way the wheel can roll over the end of the ramp.

[carl291]

Here's a ragged example: keel guide, bow stop,extended tongue, mast mount on trailer with no over hang, and the little skids in case the trailer backs off the end of ramp.

[Neil]

Carl,
That is a pretty nice trailer, is it home built?
Neil

[carl291]

Neil,
Yes, it is a homemade trailer,but not by me, Thank You. It's made with 5" channel iron, 2"angle iron and mobile home axles. If you would like the measurements ,I'll get them for you and post. I had more pictures but deleted them. Oddly enough it pulls like a dream, I pull it it with a 3500 (dual wheel) pickup. The trailer has no brakes but I had no problem towing it the 300 hundred miles home.

[Rico]

Here are a couple of pictures of C-155's trailer as another example... (More on the Mephisto Cat's thread here: http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussi...5-Mephisto-Cat)

You'll also find drawings, measurements, and dimensions for the trailer on post #11





From that thread:
"The trailer is all steel galvanized (6" Channel) with sealed wiring, and flush-equipped electric brakes for stopping power and safe dipping in salt water. The electric trailer brakes work great, and are essential as these are quite heavy loads. (in particular as I do not have a heavy duty towing vehicle)

It is also equipped with an extra axle at the front end. The intent of this additional axle is to be able to launch the boat from the beach... Hopefully somewhere in the gulf of California (Sea of Cortez) someday (sailing down in Baja!) where there might not be a lift or an appropriate ramp available."

I chose to use bunks instead of pads for a greater surface area of support. The pads do a nice jof of cradling the boat and spread the load across the hull.

I think that one of the bigger challenges in recovering a boat at a ramp will be the task of loading the boat in such a way that you end-up with the appropriate trailer tongue weight.

I shoot for about 800-900 lbs with my tow vehicle (Its max tongue rating), but the difference between an excessive load and uplift is only a few inches... Accurate markings on the boat & trailer would help quite a bit.

[C38]

Hi all, thinking about purchasing this trailer for my commander.

http://newyork.craigslist.org/fct/boa/2012974458.html

Judging from the limited info he has provided does it seem like something that would work for the commander? I am going to look at it on Sunday, but If it looks good I am going to take it on the spot. Size-wise it seems about right, it really comes down to weight capabilities, does anything jump out as something that would indicate this trailer wouldn't work for my purpose? (that being back and forth in the beginning and end of the season...)

any insights would be very helpful! thanks...

[Rico]

For sale is a sailboat trailer best used for a 24-26' boat but could be used with other sizes as well. Its a tandem axle trailer. the lights work. It has electric breaks on both axles but they are not hooked up. It was only used around town. It has a 2 5/16" coupler and a swing away tongue jack with a wheel on it. The tires are old but holding air just fine. There are 6 adjustable pads and a keel block in the center. I don't know the specific weight capacity but probably around 5500 - 6000 lbs. local delivery can be arranged. Bill of sale only.

some measurements on the trailer

oveall length 20'
center of keel to hitch 14'
center of keel to rear 6'
pad heights about 32" - 48"
frame width 6'
bottom of keel to ground 23"






Hey Michael,
Good find! Nice trailer. At a quick glance it 'looks' a bit light on the steel sections used. Might want to check into it with the builder - a phone call should get you a quick answer. (Sellers are almost always 'optimistic'! - Even if the axels can take the load, the steel holds all of it together...)
There is a good chance it is fine. The 2-5/16" ball is a good sign, but better to verify before you own it!

What's your tow vehicle?

Just some other thoughts:

1.- Define 'back & forth' - 10 miles or 500. If you are at the load limit but only intend for short trips, you can be more comfortable.

2.- Might want to verify dimensions (See my trailer drawings -Post # 11 or so on the Mephisto Cat thread -link in previous post). Make sure you can center the load (center of gravity) between the two axels - hopefully close to the middle. This will be very imprtant for your trailer AND tow vehicle. (See trailer write-up in, or close to the referenced post above.)

3.- You'll NEED to sort out the brakes. Electric brakes are the way to go with such a load.

4.- Check with your motor Vehicle department for outstanding fees /issues. The seller is only offering a bill of sale.

Good luck!