Fruits Of My Labor (A-113)

[Tony G]

There you go, sir! Done with tape, but, mounted none the less.

[Tony G]

This one might require a bit of a stretch on imagination, but, I found this pic that kinda, in way, if look past all the other stuff shows about what the cockpit locker I've been babbling about adding would look like insitu. The towel even has lines in it that mimic(in my mind)teak decking.

Ok, maybe I should lay off the Gosling's and get back to work...

[Tony G]

We've decided to ditch the hard dodger and go with a canvas drop-top style jobbie like the folks at Gemini canvas make(www.geminicanvas.com). That will reduce some of the weight and be much more flexible as far as going below and going forward. I want to add a bimini too so being able to drop the dodger if not needed to increase airflow seems like a plus.

It started to look like things were progressing way too fast here, so these ought to add a few more weeks (read months) to the 'project'.

The first shot is the basic layout just trying to get a feel for room requirments and if everything will fit in. The second shot is a wire chase that run wires up to the compass or display heads whichever route I decide to take. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's not AYBC (or is it ABYC?) approved, but it was late and the hardware stores were closed. I would have much rather used flexible conduit and I might change it before the cap goes on.

[c_amos]

Absolutely amazing Tony!

I LOVE the lines, and the way they complement the combings... which look like the curves Carl drew there...

The drain tube integrated into the dodger combing is a great idea.... it looks like you plumbed it into the recessed area where the standard nav lights sat. Good thinking... I imagine the tubes run down through the old wire chase that is molded into the cabin liner.

Lucky is the dodger that will sit on such a base... tough propisition for one on the 'stock' Ariel cabin top. I used a sail batten sewn into the hem with hold downs on either end. Works ok, but nothing like it would with that set up....

WRT your cockpit locker. My recommendation is that you mock it up and go sailing with it before you commit to it. I know Atom has fuel cans there, and James certainly has spent many moons in his cockpit... but that is a Triton. The corner of that locker is the natural helms man position (IMHO) and I would not be willing to give up room right there for anything but my legs. Just one guys opinion... worth exactly what you paid for it.

[Commander227]

Tony...you got it go'in on!

[ebb]

Tonio, you got harmony going on there with those fairwaters.

Elegant curves. Fine and fit.
It looks like you're having fun with the ole girl.

Can't wait to see what she looks like with her hat on!

[mbd]

Tony, those "fairwaters", as Ebb called them, are remarkable! Very graceful and "appropriate" for all the changes you're making. What a great idea to incorporate a mini-coaming off the sides of your sea hood.

Looking at those double curves makes me think of a ripple in a pond or an echo of your bow wave - a work of art! You have a great eye. Can't wait to see A-113 when you're done - she'll look right at home in her element...

[Tony G]

Thanks for the kind words Captains.

Hey! Don't let the sunlight fool you! It got COLD last night! The epoxy was still tacky this morning. Oh well-I go through this every year-it'll be cured by tonight.

I did replace that first 'wire chase' with something a little better suited for the job. Got the tops on and shaped and then a layer of 6oz. too just to hold things in place for the time being. I am still undecided if I want to locate the compass above the companionway, the instrument heads, or both. I find it comfortable to sit in the cockpit facing aft with my back against the cabin so putting the instrument readouts there will ruin my backrest. Plus I'd like some sheet bags there to keep things tidy (I said sheet bags). At first I was concerned the 'robust' size of the readouts would block the view if they were mounted above the companionway but then I realized that view would be of the mast and vang anyway. Maybe mount them right along the companionway trim? Let's put it to a vote. What says you?

[commanderpete]

Very nice and shapely Tony.

Above the companionway seems like the logical place to mount the instruments. But, I think visibility forward is a concern, depending on how many instruments you have, and how tall you are. See how it looks slouching in the cockpit without a cushion.

You could even recess the instruments in the bulkhead, maybe something vertical and close to the companionway so the crew and the lines don't block them.

[Tony G]

Oh well-I go through this every year-it'll be cured by tonight.

Wrong! Didn't work out like that at all. I found a sticky, tacky, still soft mess when I arrived at the boat. Overly hopeful, I tried sanding it off first, but the pads gummed-up in about a minute. After trying finer grades and then coarsest of grade I resorted to utility knife and scraper. Dismal. Tore up the form significantly in a couple of places. All in all, a pretty unrewarding evening.

Spent my day off repairing and catching up. I think... Came to the conclusion that the instrument readouts wil have to be mounted on the aft bulkhead. The function buttons would be too hard to reach from the helm if they were mounted over the companionway. I really only intend to use them when necessary and that's probably the time I don't want to leave the helm. Besides, that will put the compass on the centerline.

More tubing and dodger parts should show up Monday. When things start getting too cold to work outside we'll have to make a bender and take a crack at it.

[ebb]

Search motorcycle (HarleyDavidson, eg) sites and forums.

check this out as a lead in.
google> Hand Tube Bender Manual (MS-13-43, R2)
It's a manual bender that they say can handle 3/4" to 1 1/4" tube. Swagelok
No idea what they want for the tool. Maybe it can be rented. Maybe a more advanced model can be rented???

The simplicity of this tool makes me think even I could use it.
But bending 1" by hand will require hiring a 300# biker.

Considering the tube choices:
1" X .065 (.66#ft) / 1" X .046 (.50#ft) / 7/8" X .065 (.57#ft) / 7/8" X .046 (.44#ft)*. - this is the usual stuff used for bending and is commonly available in welded 304 for about $5 a foot. Anything else costs too much.

Amazing isn't it: a foot long piece of 1/16" thick 1" tube weighs in at three quarters of a pound! The thinner alternative, 3/64" wall, is half a pound a foot.


Custom pulpits and pushpits are astronomically priced at local marine fabrication shops. Was impressed by Geoff's extended pushpit, still am, but could never afford it.

But I'll wager you can't find one sailor who has actually bent tube for his pulpit.
All the help net nuts (boat design forum, woodenboat, ehow, etc) are cross threaded.

I did find, but lost it, a site where a guy had complete plans for a stand-up bender that used a bottle jack capable of doing smaller radius that can't be done by hand.
There is a bit of science to bending tube.** A bit more to planning the job. And some extra expense if the design calls for welding by an expert.


Did find a memorable piece of advice where filling the pipe with wax was recommended before any serious bending to keep the tube from collapsing. He suggested icing just before the work began. Filling the tube with sand is often mentioned - but sand is sand - you'd have to solder caps on the ends with sand. Worth experimenting with the wax idea, melt it out when done. (what kind of wax???)
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*Pretty easy to see how weight adds up even for tube.
**Harbor Freight is a source for cheap pipe roll benders. Don't know if buffed stainless can survive a crude pipebender.

[Tony G]

Ebb

I have been putzing around with this idea of DIYing a dodger, a bimini, a pulpit, a pushpit, a..., and a ... You get the picture. So having access to a unit that has the ability to do multiple radii is a must. I have decided that other than a anchor platform, thin walled tubing is plenty strong. A few years back we ordered some 7/8" thin wall for some project I've since forgotten. But I can tell you a 8foot length isn't very heavy, by my standards, and is still pretty dang strong. Put a couple of bends in it, and give some thought as to where the weak points are and you can make a piece that will do the job just fine.

I'm trying to keep the 1" stuff very simple as far as bends go. Instead using it in straight runs that can be cut and, here's the wrinkle, welded. The dodger and bimini are definately going to be 7/8". The hand rails on the cabin top will be 7/8" too. On our boats its all short lengths and that alone will keep it plenty strong. Just about anything is going to bend if we start running into stuff. And having a 'crush zone' that is something other than our beloveds sounds like a good idea to me.

Back to the hand rails. I've had this love affair of making the hand rails, dorade guards and mast pulpit all one continuous sweep with a single strut coming off it near the dorade vents to stabilize it. Dash it all-it might not work because the RBV might clip the tube where it bends up from hand rail to dorade guard/mast pulpit when the main is eased all the way out to the aft lower shrouds. A full sized working mock-up of the lower 3' of mast and a model of the RBV and a line substituted for the aft lower shroud and the hand rail/dorade guard/mast pulpit. Whew! I don't get that much done in season!

If Don Casey knows what he's talking about,(and I believe he does) his diagram in This Old Boat is a very simple unit that may do the job just fine with a low introductory cost. I'll just keep looking...

If you head over to the Technical threads I posted a link in the Bow Pulpit/ Stern Rail/ Pushpit thread to a crotch rocket forum where a guy discusses his DIY tubing bender. One thing he stated that no one else has is his bender fully surrounds the tubing while being bent. Somewhere in that post they discuss fillling the tube with sand and the 'author' states he did not, and did not believe it was necessary as the tube is surrounded. But sand would be cheap and easy to deal with. Wax would eat up too much boat money for me.

[mrgnstrn]

Tony,

MY vote is for the "dashboard" style on top the cabin. If I could move my current instruments on my current boat, I would in a heartbeat! That way you don't have to take your eyes off the road. Also, if you pick instruments correctly, I doubt you will be punching buttons ever. At most you will want Boatspeed, Depth, and Wind (3 total). Granted, if you want to switch between apparent and true wind, you will be punching buttons, so just pick one and learn to love it!

just my opinion.
When I had my Ariel (#3), I mounted the depth on the aft face of the bridgedeck (in the cockpit well).
What a bad idea!
Whenever we were motoring out I liked to stand to get visibility, but then had to bend way over and stick my head down in the cockpit well to see if we were running aground (depth)! Poor ergonomics. The cabin-top dashboard (or even like the true-racers: on the mast) is the way to go!

-Keith

[ebb]

Agree. The IDEAL place for instrument is over the companionway, at the front end. For coast sailing at night I wonder if there is a better location for an illuminated sounder - certainly not in the cockpit well. On an Ariel there aren't too many places.

Tube Bending.
Looked up router bits for making mandrels. There is nothing available to make a deep flute for 7/8". It is possible to have a custom bit made. $$$. So we're stuck with a readily available 1/2"R cove bit.
Shaper bits is another story. If you have access to a shaper, you can more easily find an outfit to custom a 7/8" round nose bit. They would make an absolutely perfect cradle for the tube - While having to make two passes with the router cove bit makes it possible to have a problem with the curve.
So it is likely that 1" tube is what we have to bend.
Making the mandrels will take some doing and care. I would guess the most versatile material is meranti, or birchply. You can glue it up to create a mandrel that has thicker sides, maybe even enough for the flute bit to roll on. We can glue on stuff, fix mistakes no problem.
Another great material is polyethylene - just bought a piece 1" thick, not too expensive. It's cutting board. Can't glue it, but it's as close to wax as solid plastic gets. In the photo of the green bending ap, the white mandrel must be polyethylene.
[Do you notice a little extra radius bend at the bottom of the mandrel? Maybe to take care of springback, right? Give the bend an extra kick in there.]
Stainless tube will love to be bent in this stuff.

And then there is making the bender itself. Are you thinking of doing that?

Found a Utube bending video where the guy filled the tube first with water, then poured in the dry sand. Said to pack in better.

As to wax. Paraffin can't be all that expensive in Minnesota. And for freezing it, all you have to do is open a door and stick the tube outside.


Dono what I'm going to do.
Reinventing the wheel over and over (total remodeling) is taking FOREVER. I have run out of time. I just know that a tube bending guy can take the tube, bend it just right, hold it up in the air over the pattern or the boat itself, and come up with a perfect stern pulpit. - 5 grand!
I will have a full 3D ply pattern that took me a couple months to make, and who knows HOW LONG it would take me to translate into nicely bent double axis tube? Just having to trim 1/4" off the end of a tube seems a chore. (Dang...forgot about the sand!)

Go forit, Tony.

[Tony G]

Keith,

Thanks for the realworld input. A couple of years back I lucked out on a sale and got the Navman 3100 series wind, speed, depth with a 'repeater'. The display heads are something like 4 or 4 1/2 inches square. So the main three of them and a compass will be a tight fit above the companion way. Also, I incessantly worry about the compass being thrown off by the readouts. Craig (c_amos)suggested mocking up the dash on a piece of plywood and 'swinging' the compass Some reading may be in order before I try that. The tally stands at two above the hatch...

Ebb, sir!

I cobbled together a woodie version of the bender in the technical thread. I had hung onto a collection of old plywood cabinet doors from years ago because they were nice, solid chunks of material. Now I know why I carted 'em around for ten years!! A bender they are now!

In the noodling I did, I found all of 'commercial' units did both 7/8" and 1" on the same platen/form/die, whatever you'd call it. So I suspect that 1/8" just don't matter to the pros out there... a million here, a million there... so I used a 1/2"radius cove bit and glued and screwed the two halfs together. A 10" radius seemed like the best bet for what we got planned here. (although there are a couple of 5-6inch radius bends I'm hoping to pull off with a conduit bender) It seems that the crowning machine is the one that will make a big difference in the bow shape and bow strenght. And I haven't started making one of those yet, but it's a pretty straight forward machine. A couple of bolts and a couple of pulleys.

B.s. it's only been in the 40s for the last week. Utterly depressing....