Well, it's not that I'm afraid of commitment. More afraid of being committed!
It took forever to find the line we were looking for. This is what I've come up with so far. I took as much as I could from the Cape Dory 36 because it has that strong Alberg influence or characteristics. But, being our cabin is shaped considerably different from the CD 36 it wasn't a straight transfer from the specs. My first strike was more in line with the coamings of a Shannon 28. Nice but not what I really was looking for.
There is an aft section still waiting to be built and shaped that the traveler is incorporated into. That section will be much easier to layout. WOW! Nothing is symetrical on this boat. Six different stations for each coaming, not a single angle duplicated! I thought it would be easy to 'throw' a couple of coamings on her.
I'm leaning toward glass with wood caps from the winches forward. That would give me a chance to use some of the original coamings. Probably insert some ash strips for a designated 'step here' spot. insides of the cockpit kept smooth fiberglass with trim around the cut-out for the storage cubby under the winches. Thanks for reminding me that I need to order the turning blocks which will get their own mounting pad like shown in the following photo...thusly
Finally got some real time in working on the girl again. Got some matt and fabric in the winch cubbies and in the turning block cubbies. Drilled holes for the drains that tie into the locker lid scuppers. Shaped the styro corners, although far from final, and got the outer skins on and the traveler mount glued in. Now some serious shaping, serious grinding and serious glassing and fairing. Seriously...
Tony, I really love those coamings!
Your modeling is to my eye very pro (as in profound) - from the eye-pleasing fronts to curvaceous back. For instance: adding a bit more arch to the traveler 'coaming' across the back is masterful. Really.
Ability to find a higher place to sit in the cockpit area is an important safety concern. Especially if the perch is comfortable.
You'll remember Zoltan saying, when asked about his huge cockpit on the Commander, that it wasn't a concern for him because as much green water that came aboard in rough weather got tossed right back out of the cockpit.
Have a similar problem with getting rid of green water with my remodel in the back of the cockpit on A338. We have to find a way to get water out quickly, VERY QUICKLY, when the water gets higher than the companionway threshold.
I'm not sure that an OB Ariel can depend on the OB well as an ultimate scupper. It certainly is that. But as Zoltan implies: as much water enters the cockpit as exits. It is, however, those split seconds when inundated that the water getting out might also be getting below. And there are I-don't-know-how-many-stories of water getting in to the cabin. Who's to say that in the excitement the drop boards aren't also going overboard.....?
My mahogany extra-tall coamings got screwed up when being surfaced by me. Asleep at the sander was I. So I am thinking of blatantly copying those marvelous coamings of yours.
BUT the way I go I'd get totally focused on the problem of fabricating fiberglass moldings and it would take me another forever to come up with something at least comparable to yours! There are a lot of good curves that could indicate a relatively light molding. But then there's the wood on top and the bracing for the winches....etc...etc.
Regular coamings that extend above the companionway, on other boats I've seen opening scuppers worked in. Deck level scuppers that only open with pressure from the cockpit side. Not at all sure if they would have enough volume capability. Or if they are really efficient?
Water weight and height in the cockpit has to be GONE immediately.
There's some math to figure the volume of weight a cockpit contains, it's huge. Enough probably to cause some strange and dangerous trim problems - when too many problems are coming down.
Anyway, just tossing this in to boost your paranoia tolerance
Looking good!
I think that with a little thought one could design a drop in hatch cover ( for the engine well front opening) with some one pretty large one-way valves that would allow water to drain from the cockpit into the well and out while keeping water out.
A nice looking teak or mahogany cover with horizontal slots cut in, and rubber strips over the slots fastened top and sides on the back would be a good flapper valve. Wouldn't be a perfect seal but the rubber would flex to let water drain out while keeping most water from coming in.
Top-hinged wooden flaps with light elastic to keep them closed could allow for larger openings with better sealing.
Hope you don't mind, Tony....
Kendal, yeah, I've seen wood coamings cut for swingout scuppers. Made from the coaming material, the sides were cut on a bevel so that they couldn't swing in. In a normal coaming you can't have many of them in that style. But if done well they would look the best of all alternatives.
We A/C's sail on our ear at times with the rail in the water. Hinged scuppers would open up by their own weight and would scoop water. A hazard. Resistance to opening with a spring or something imco would be difficult to make work.
Attwood and Seachoice make ring scuppers with rubber flappers. OK in a bassboat transom. More interesting are the floating ball valves where returning water pushes a floating ball against the scupper opening. Deck drains and maybe transoms. Looks like there is nothing off the shelf.
It just flashed that if Tony has a concern about water being contained over deck level he could DORADE those boxed coamings. He'd loose some cockpit storage, I think, in the coaming interiors
BUT if said interior was set up like an ondeck Dorade vent box they could be made open to drain and still (unless totally inudated) easily let water out and discourage water in without any flapper or ball gizmos. The width of the coamings allows designing baffles in the drainage channels that could keep water from re-entering. I'm guessing ofcourse.
With molded coamings exits could be bigger and useful. Imagine that they need not be very tall off the deck, maybe an inch or two. But would be some inches long for volume. And more numerous. Imagine a double 'floor' in the coaming box: deck level drain system, upper level storage.
Hinged lids might yet be called for, because water could enter back into the cockpit thru the scuppers from the up side when the boat is tilted.
When the cockpit is filling with big greenies, remove the seatback cushions (if they're not overboard already.)
Those coamings look fantastic! You've got the curves just right. A-113 is going to look stout AND shapely. I love that last shot. You can really see how the coamings follow the curve of the deck, no accident, I'm sure.
Tony,
Is there any rule for the angle of line to the sheet winch?
Some coamings are slanted at a rediculous and unattractive angle.
While other winches seem to sit square and upright..
We've even seen sheet winches horizontal off the coamings - instead of vertical.
If a wedge is used under the winch on flat coamings, there has to be a companion wedge underneath somewhere so that fastenings are square. Complications getting that right.
The line has to want to winde UP on the drum in an orderly fashion, correct?
When I was crewing on Bill's boat there was a cleat thingy on the winches. I never thrusted the convenience thinking a digit could get caught in the jamming process. I imagine a separate jamcleat (like I've often seen) that a singlehander could whip the sheet around and get tight without having to actually touch the winch. With the exception of the winch handle.
Seen winches with a flying camcleat coming out of the base.
How you gonna do it?
Ebb, I purposely keep the word perfect out of my vocabulary. Was it CPete that said perfection is the enemy of progress?
The winches I have call for an ideal line angle of 3-8 degrees to prevent overriding. The science used here was plopping a winch on the coaming along with the turning block in their designated spots. Then I ran some 3/8" line through turning block wrapped the winch and worked backwards to the height of the lead blocks on tracks. That was, of course, for the large percentage head sails. For the smaller head sail we skipped the turning block and moved the lead block forward. I putzed with it for half a day so I hope I got it right. If not, who the #&!! cares we can work with it, let's git 'er wet!
As far as winch placement I figured we'd need a 1/2" pad under the winch and a 1/4" one below the turning block to give a fair lead to the sheets. I have seen some horizontally mounted winches too and it screwed me up! I'm still not the same!
Cool temps and low humidity inspired me to cash in one of my vacation days and break out the grinder. Nothing makes me feel like we're getting something done like a bad itch!
Last edited by Tony G; 08-25-2009 at 02:31 PM.
Reason: Originally I thought I had mis-spoken, but, actually I lied.
Just some more photos of the same old boring stuff... Finally decided how to handle the 'space' below the traveler. The fiberglass skin will hopefully act as, or should I say form a strut to spread the stress over a greater area. That's how I see it happening anyway.
Once we get the coamings encased we will start on the cockpit storage in the forward end of the footwell. That'll be interesting. Gotta work backwards from the seacocks to the scuppers in order to find some hoses that will work. Currently I'm thinking of using radiator hoses like Tim L. did on Glissando and making my own scupper drains. Those manufactured drains are outrageously expensive!
The last two photos are of the final layer of glass to go on the coamings. I know, I know, not too exciting. It's worse to think it is about the only thing I've accomplished on the boat this summer.
Next up-a hole...
Last edited by Tony G; 08-28-2009 at 08:22 AM.
Reason: added photos
Tony,
Really looking good!!! I always say a good home addition is one in which you can't tell has been added on. It should look like a part of the original design. You've made the new coamings look as though the boat was intended to wear them. Are they higher than the original wood coamings? What are your plans for this fwd cockpit storage locker? I must say I'm a little nervous about that.
Mike
C227
Thanks, Mike. They are roughly 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch taller at the forward end and around 3 inches taller at the aft. They seem bigger though. I'm starting to like them more and more the closer they get to being finished. But it has been sooo long since we've had coamings on the boat that 'comfort factor' may be more perceived than actual.
Sheesh! I'm already leary about cutting a big hole in the cockpit, how about givin a brother a little love! I'm planning on making some scuppers like the ones you'd find under the factory locker lids. Got a 'water proof', heavy duty latch to keep the lid on things. The bottom portion will be an integral water tank much smaller than the 40 gallon version I originally thought about adding. Above that a 'dry' storage area. The locker portion will extend aft from the bridge deck around 18-20 inches and come up to just below the factory locker lids. Seems like a nice spot for some teak decking. This part is all straight forward...it's the scuppers in the footwell that are adding a dash of frustration to the mix.
*************************************wait a minute***************************************
Nope. Changed my mind. The locker will only extend back 16 1/2 inches and will be flush with the cockpit seats. Still adds plenty of storage and the lower water tank will be sufficiently large for a second tank. The site gauge and plumbing will be accessable through the wet locker under the companionway. The original cockpit scuppers can be cut out and transferred to their new location. This design get a 99% confidence rating from me, this morning.
Last edited by Tony G; 08-28-2009 at 08:33 AM.
Reason: added new info after reassessing
Well, my buddy wanted his hammer back so I figured we better get some wood working done. Same as always, start getting nervous, then shaking, worried about screwing something up. Or cutting off a finger...
It's the last teak the hardwood supplier around town will bring in. Then I mixed in some of the old Ensign's cockpit parts for luck. Luck, ha! I couldn't afford to buy any more teak if I wanted to. I always liked the look of the Cabo Rico interiors and their doors look strong and dummy resistant. That's exactly what I need!
Of course these are pictures of a bunch of pieces just lying there. But you get the idea. Making one board many pieces is the easy part. Making many pieces one.......
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) - from the eye-pleasing fronts to curvaceous back. For instance: adding a bit more arch to the traveler 'coaming' across the back is masterful. Really.
