addendum Electric Outboards

[mbd]

...but now I am planning on a 48 volt Mars brushless electric motor set up. less weight, no noise, I moor at a dock with shore power so charging isn't a problem. it looks like I will get about 1.5 hours @ hull speed or 4-5 hours @ around 3 knots with 4 group 27 deep cycle batteries.

Keep us updated and post lots of details on this one!

[Commander 147]

electric motor. Can you give us some links to the equipment you plan on using?

[Commander 147]

Have you checked out EVA, Inc.? This link is to the website and below is a quote that they gave me for the same kind of electric motor repower.

http://www.ev-america.com/EVACatalog.html

[Commander227]

Willbe,
My first intention was to go with a brushed shunt wound motor and controller. I figured I could pull them out of an old gulf cart or pick up something on the cheep from ebay. (I think the scrapping of a gulf cart is probably a pretty good way to go as you would get virtually everything you would need all in one shot and I think the performance would be acceptable.)
I think however that if I'm going to go through all the work of designing and installing the system, I should spend a few bucks and buy shiny new things.
I've decided to go with the Mars brushless motor, Sevcon PMAC 48 volt controller, Sevcon DC/DC converter to power the boat's 12 volt systems.
I have not had a chance to look much into chargers yet.
I'm 90% sure I'm going with Thunderstruck motors, for at least the main components.
http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/sailboatkit.htm
This link brings you to a kit that is close to what I am planning to install, but I want a few different components and wish to make the wiring harnesses myself to get the neatest possible installation. Curtis makes a throttle Pot (wd-45)that goes 5 ohms-0 ohms-5 ohms so I won't need a fwd/rev switch, I can just move the throttle back for reverse and push forward for forward.
The Mars brushless motor weighs only 24 lbs as opposed to 100 plus lbs for a shunt wound motor of equal power and the brushless motors are also quite a bit more efficiant as well as being maintanance free.
The motor is actually A/C 3 phase and the controller converts the D/C power by sending pulses to the motor. This system is set up for regenitive braking, so the controller can be programmed to start charging the batteries once you get up around hull speed and free wheel before that.
Many sites have the motor for about $450.
About the same for the controller,
Contactors, fuses, throttle pot, switches will probably add up to another $400.-$500.
Unlike IC engines that have a narrow power band, the nature of electric motors is to have tons of low end torque. this system should not have any problem pushing my Commander around at hull speed, the only question is range. you need about 400 lbs of batteries to give you the same BTUs as 6 lbs of diesel fuel. Being I sail a inland lake and can charge from shore power at my dock, I am selecting batteries to give me one hour @ hull speed, (enough to get back from the bars and restaurants in Wayzata Bay fast, without going below 80% depth of charge) I would like to keep the weight down as much as I can. I should be able to keep the weight about the same as with the outboard, and way below the weight of the Atomic 4, fuel, engine battery & house battery.
I dunno... it looks O.K. on paper. We'll see how it looks under the bright lights of reality.
An article in the March/April Wooden Boat Magizine about a guy who built an electric launch is what got me going on this whole deal, after doing my own due diligence and research I re-read the article and found I had come up with pretty much the same system and components.

[mbd]

Here's another site I ran across: http://www.elcoelectriclaunch.com/drives.htm

and another: http://www.electric-boat-association.org.uk/

[Commander 147]

Commander 227

Do you have any idea how much electricity you can generate with the Sevcon PMAC 48 volt controller setup? Obviously the more you can generate the less battery weight you need to carry. I would really like to avoid needing 8 batteries. Going out long channels to get to deep water in the gulf makes my future repower a little more demanding than your inland lake sailing. I will also be looking at photovoltaics as a possible method of getting some juice back before I get back to the dock. The upside is you don't need wind to charge that way but the downside is you need a lot of them to get a significant amount of recharging capacity. Solar cell technology is improving by leaps and bounds and the problems may soon be overcome.

I was unable to find the Curtis WD-45 throttle you mentioned. I found a WP-45 but it only works up to 30 volts. Can you give me a link to the throttle? Will it lock in the center so you don't accidentally bump it into forward or reverse? I guess a key switch would make bumping the throttle not a problem however.

Have you given any thought to where you will locate the batteries? I would like to keep them as far forward as possible without making the cable excessively long.

Will you use a folding prop or a fixed prop to maximise regenerating capability?

Like you I hate using an outboard on my sailboat. I am determined to use an electric inboard drive. So when you have completed your repower I would like very much to fly up to see your setup. Would you be willing to show it off to me?

[Commander227]

Commander 227

Do you have any idea how much electricity you can generate with the Sevcon PMAC 48 volt controller setup?

I was unable to find the Curtis WD-45 throttle you mentioned. I found a WP-45 but it only works up to 30 volts.

Have you given any thought to where you will locate the batteries?

Will you use a folding prop or a fixed prop to maximise regenerating capability?

So when you have completed your repower I would like very much to fly up to see your setup. Would you be willing to show it off to me?

I really do not yet have a handle on the regen capabilities. There are so many variables such as prop slippage, prop size and come in speed. I think I'll just have to play with the programming once the system is installed. A few sites selling similar systems claim to be able to regen while at anchor in a current. I don't think I would want it to come online and start inducing drag until I was near hull speed, but I'll have easy charging in my slip.

My mistake... it is the WP-45. Keep in mind it is not using the full line voltage, just the 10.5v controller circuit voltage. Anyway I'm off the WP-45. The Harbor 20 uses a Motorguide electric motor set up and has a very neat key switch and throttle in a nice recessed pan that will mount flush. It is 5-0-5 K ohms, it does not have any feel or neutral detent, but I've found it to work great the few times I've sailed a harbor 20. I just ordered the pictured set up from Schock.

Batteries will be kept as low and close to the C/G as possible. I had to place a couple of sand bags in my anchor rode compartment this summer to balance the 9.9 O.B. Before haul out I pulled the O.B. and the sand bags and the boat still rode bow high and took almost 100# to level out the boat. Being the I.B. motor will sit about 6' aft of the C/G, I know I'll need at least 2 batts well forward. I will not build the battery boxes until all systems are in place and I can float the boat to get the balance right.

A folding prop will not work with the relief cut into the keel and rudder. I am debating on 2 blade vs. 3 blade. If I use a 2 blade I can mark the shaft and pin it inline with the keel when racing, but it sure is nice to have that 3 blade bite when you are accelerating or stopping. I'm on vacation next week and have Dave Garr's "Propeller Handbook" for my beach reading.

I'd love to show it off if it works and I don't end up pulling it all back out and hauling it to the scrap yard.

[Bill]

SolidNav has a line of electric motors for boats. Svend's in Alameda, CA has the "Traveler" model on display . . . an outboard. Stats in the owner's manual indicate an equivalent 4-hp from 3.0 kw. Here's the pitch:

"SolidNav proudly announces a real electric option for sailboats without an existing inboard, pontoon boats and for small craft that require reliable outboard performance. Our long shaft and remote engine controls make docking enjoyable without the dread of lethal oil sheens and clouds of foul smelling fumes. Actual outboard construction and solid frame construction position the traveler as the only choice for real world applications.

$2,499*"

http://www.solidnav.com/traveler.html

From my limited observation, the shaft and head should fit in the A-C well. Not sure, however, about the clearance distance from the aft bulkhead in the lazarette, as I did not have access to a measuring device.

[Commander227]

Bill,
I believe this has the same electric motor as I am planning to install as an Inboard, the Mars PMAC. the controller is smaller (150 amp) than I am planning on using (250 amp) . I have seen similar models that have the Mars motor bolted to the Tohatsu 6hp lower unit and cowl. The SolidNav Explorer model is also the same motor with a smaller controller as the ThunderStruck kit and is a neat little package, but over $3.000. more expensive.

[ebb]

For me there has to be more than a web site and hype to become interested in an electric outboard. There is no spread to their presentation. Curious lack of testimonial, photo and video support. This being a three years in development American product where are the long legs, installation and spray shots? Where's the action?

At least the price is comparable to gas OBs. How about the wear and tear.
How about a demo on a particular market target sailboat? Weight issue (batteries) might keep the motor out of the race crowd. It's not for extended cruising unless you can make juice as you use it. I'd like to see it demoed in more water than marina parking.

It's unavoidable that the electric OB will be compared to the gas OB on more than the green factor and the price.
You have to incude the dedicated battery bank in the cost comparison. The battery issue, weight and room and CHARGING, has to be addressed realistically by the company. imco

Or do we have to wait for Practical Sailor to rate it?
(Practical Sailor now features unrated untested new products. Being a cynic - and certain there must be hundreds of new products coming on market every week - I wonder if the featured manufacturer is paying a fee for the privilege of the exposure. It's good to know of new products but not with an implied approval stamp from a product testing "we take no advertising" magazine.) P.S. should be doing a comparison test soon.

There needs to be third party feedback.

[ebb]

For you DIY fans this is interesting - maybe not, but I was impressed with the detail - click on the 'Updates':
Etek Electric Outboard Motor Project
http://www.psnw.com/-jmrudholm/etekoutboard.html

And here is an video with sound of a Torgeedo being tested. The test is with a noisy self contained lithium battery version. I think. An Ariel would have to use their 24 volt Cruise version that runs off a battery bank. Needs 2000Watts!!!
Testing The Torgeedo
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008...e-torgeeda.php

Neither of these come up.
I've checked my typing on downloads and they are accurate.
Worth finding. Use the title for google.
__________________________________________________ _________________________________________________
Some YouTube videos:
Converting sailboat Tranquility to electric propulsion.
Sea-EV Electric Sailboat Conversion
Hans Kloepfer and his electric Pearson Vanquard
Yacht Electric Conversion
Spincraft electric boat Pearson Vanquard sailboat "Amphitrite"
........this was late at night - might have screwed up the titles....
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________
E-POD SYSTEM 2000 (comparable to an 8HP OB): Is a compact all in the water horizontal 24-48V motor about the size of a suckling pig that is attached to the underside of a sailboat with two pipe-sized thru-holes. It is meant for trailerable fin keelers.
However it might work through an altered OB well in an Ariel where it could be lowered and raised so that the unit wouldn't produce drag as designed. Bats can be regeneratively charged by letting the prop spin. Certainly seems possible that a vertical model could be produced to be used as an OB. Unit may need to be in the water for cooling.
See 'forum' pics of a double install on a Columbia 43 of their size-up model!
www.re-e-power.com

[ebb]

apology for too many posts

[mbd]

Didn't take the time to look up the price, but it's looking promising!

http://www.vimeo.com/3339416

[Rico]

MBD - That was the 2 HP Motor... They also make this! (see below...) This is the correct motor for our boats (Outboard in the well model). It is a 9.9 HP gas equivalent and it spins a 10" prop! (great for our displacement hulls!

The new, lightweight Cruise 4.0 R offers further unique advantages for boaters. Each 48 V electric outboard comes standard with a cable set, fuse, main-switch, remote throttle control with integrated board computer and magnetic on/off switch as well as a link-arm to connect to standard steering systems.

Offering 215 lbs. of thrust, the Cruise 4.0 R has the thrust equivalent to a 9.9 hp internal combustion outboard. More importantly, the propulsive power, measured as speed times thrust after all losses including propeller losses, compares to an 8 hp gas outboard in displacement mode.

This is priced at $3,699.00 (Including current discount offer!)

Link:
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com...Outboard+Motor

If these follow the pricing curve of LCD screens - we could see them in the right range to compete with conventional ourboards...

[mbd]

Yeah, I realized it was only 2 HP and figured they made others - but in the video they said it could push a 29 foot 3500 lb sailboat (???) at 4 knots!

And OUCH on the price!