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Thread: Main Sheet Traveler

  1. #46
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    Traveler

    I am installing a traveler on Commamder 131. I have what appears to be 2 options. The first is to mount the traveler track on a block of wood. The second is to get a curved traveler track and install dircetly onto the deck. I believe that the latter option will be simpler and will avoid the need to maintain the wood block. My concern is if the travler track is not raised up on the block of wood, do I run the risk that the main sheets going from the track to the end of the boom will chaffe agaisnt the wooden combing on the sides of the cockpit.

    Has anyone mounted the traveler track directly onto the deck without a wood block? Any suggestions

    Thanks


    Jake

  2. #47
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    Jake, please run a search on "traveler." You'll find much discussion and photos of traveler setups.

    Most, I believe, go with the level track on a wooden base for optimum sail control. Maintenance is not a big deal.

  3. #48
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    Jake, my traveler is mounted without a wood block. It was a real pain to install when I got to the ends because of the camber of deck in the back of the cockpit. It also can get a little "sticky" when I want to move it to the ends.

    Besides, that little piece of brightwork in the after cockpit really warms things up...

    FWIW, I will eventually mount mine on a piece of wood.
    Mike
    Totoro (Sea Sprite 23 #626)

  4. #49
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    Jake,

    I pondered the same thing and went with the block. More choices for the hardware (track) if you go "flat". Here's the Garhauer track I put on-- sturdy and not very pricey compared to the competition. Maintenance? Practically none, except for a brush with varnish once a year (5 minutes?)
    Attached Images  
    Last edited by Hull376; 05-22-2008 at 07:07 PM.
    Kent

  5. #50
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    Re: Flicka mainsheet traveler alternative

    That line will google up the words, but sadly no diagrams, on what some folks consider is a cruising alternative to deck travelers used for racing.

    C'pete posted marvelous diagrams that show just what is gained by day sailors with travelers.

    Litlgull has to have an alternative since a traveler can no longer be mounted in the back of the cockpit.
    But others evidently consider rigging non-traveler systems for a number of reasons.

    Reference to the title above:
    quote: >"We've been unhappy with the Flicka's top stern rail-mounted traveler for some time, esp. with respect to its inability to flatten the sail or hold it down for upwind sailing.
    >A boatbuilder friend suggested we try two mainsheets instead. So we attached two 4:1 block and pulley systems to the boom bail, and ran the other ends to bow shackles at each of the stern chainplates.
    >The difference in boat performance was significant. We can position the boom anywhere, and, at least when the boom is more or less over the boat, we can pull down on it. This pull not only flattens the main, but keeps it from dumping in lumpy water. Yes, it means fiddling with two sets of lines when tackling, but the improvement in performance is worth it.
    >The use of the mainsheets is a quick, easy, inexpensive alternative to a track-based traveler, and is out of the way, as well. A side benefit is that these sheets also serve as preventers.
    >In addition to the above, we use a preventer, mounted mid-boom and to a stanchion base, as a way to pull the boom when off the wind, again to good effect. Mike s/v Eventide"

    This quote probably originated from the Flicka 20 owners & admirers site.

    [Looking at Bill's opening photo beginning this thread, it's easy to imagine the single blue lines in blocks,
    seeing them doubled into two sets and terminating port & starboard to some point on the aft deck at opposite rails.
    Traveler system would be disappeared. Sheets and traveler lines would not necessarily be dumped on the tiller!]


    On an Ariel/Commander the 'stern chainplates' could be located anywhere just aft of the cockpit coaming using 1/2" U-bolt 'chainplates'.
    The two sheet ends could be led directly to the primary winches on the coaming.
    Or the tackle inverted and the sheets led forward along the boom....and back to the cockpit on top of the cabin.
    I'm not sure this is a viable plan. Maybe the port & starboard sheets can be led aft from the mast - but more to the sides of the cabin to the coaming winches? And each line led from the mast foot to the correct windward sheet winch.

    Mike's Flicka 20 double sheet rig seems to be an authentic alternative, and worthy of consideration.
    With primary winches readily available for power, maybe the 4:1's could be downsized for gun-tackles
    or TWO single to double block tackles. Less 3/8" sheet tangling in the cockpit.
    Looks like a low-maintenance system to me.....without the traveler.....wudu aye no

    Any interest in this?
    Last edited by ebb; 12-01-2012 at 01:27 PM.

  6. #51
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    Hey Ebb check out this thread. It has some diagrams and debate on twin sheeting the main sail.

    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/sai...hat-18158.html

  7. #52
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    Original Ariel setup with mods?

    From the forum in Ben's post:

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperPiper on boatdesign.net
    What's The Traveller Do?
    A traveler may have 2 functions: It allows the boom to be brought up to centre when sailing close to the wind. And it can create some downward pressure when you want to flatten the main.

    The twin sheets can also provide these functions: Use the windward sheet to bring the boom back to centre. And, use the leeward sheet to control downward pressure.

    The leeward sheet can also act as a preventer for accidental gybes.

    Playing the sheets would be a little more complicated. Which would you adjust to maintain helm balance? Adjusting 1 may require adjusting both. Maybe on a cruiser, it would not be so critical.

    For some reason, twin sheets have not gained a lot of popularity.
    Of course, any good thread requires pics. Here are the two Bingham-style drawings towards the end of the thread (minus the cat and mouse).

    From user alan white on boatdesign.net:
    Name:  14686d1184032113-replace-traveller-track-what-mainsheet.jpg
Views: 14459
Size:  61.3 KB


    From user MMNet SEA on boatdesign.net:
    Name:  14917d1185013512-replace-traveller-track-what-double-mainsheet.jpg
Views: 25887
Size:  90.2 KB


    Although it looks like he may place his on the aft end of his cabin top, the original Ariel setup has them at the aft end of the cockpit. We've talked about this somewhere before, maybe in the context of using the boom vang as a preventer? But you could add 2 U-Bolts somewhere up on both rails (or use the stanchion bases if you have them), then use that attachment point to rig the second the mainsheet as a preventer when cruising in the tradewinds...


    Last post of the thread - probably a cruiser:

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lee on boatdesign.net
    If you put in that middle U-bolt I see in the pix, you could just use a single main sheet on lazy days. I bet after a bit you'd find that 99% of your days are lazy days.
    Last edited by mbd; 12-02-2012 at 06:28 AM.
    Mike
    Totoro (Sea Sprite 23 #626)

  8. #53
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    Twin Sheet

    Fantastic amazing! Great to read an actual discussion with pictures on the subject. Thanks Ben. And Mike, thanks for your insight. I will go back, probably download, for study. But NOW I'm convinced and able to SEE how it can be done on litlgull. The seeing is to recognize that the system is open and can be tailored to the boat. To any boat.

    Interesting point made that one of the twin sheets could be unhooked for 'lazy sailing'
    - but also easy to hook up a single 4:1 to a center 'chainplate' eye. Versatility with the boom-bail. (See that VendeeVolvo racer had soft grommets.) It also frees the boom to be easily rigged or de-rigged for other uses.


    To settle any conjectures and assumptions in discussion, it may be also be easy to set up both systems on a single boat and on the same day actually compare the existing traveler with a double 'A' system - Compare the two sheeting systems at the same time! Are they equal or is one better.
    Notes on that exercise might free some inflexible opinions! It's intriguing that the original* - if that is indeed the original '60's' system as supplied by Alberg/Pearson - can be upgraded so logically so many decades later.
    Wonder if the racing crowd can see it that way? Or One at the head of the racing crowd, I can think of.

    "For some reason, twin sheets have not gained a lot of popularity."
    Wouldn't you agree twin block & tackles are much more pleasing to the eye
    compared to the button-down corporate look of over enginneered and expensive slide travelers?
    Travelers are OK in the gear-envy sphere of time keepers and buoy bashing.
    Just kidding.......
    But just as mysterious to me is that the traveler system became so universally accepted.
    Once the system was leading edge. But now we can spend our $$$ on fancy blocks and line.


    litlgull will have twin sheets (and Tufnol blocks.) No traveler on a boom gallows or anything like that!


    OK, fellow travelers, weigh in on this!
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _______
    * from the Manual's Ariel List of Equipment circa 2/1/1962. 'Main sheet consisting of 60' of 3/8" dacron rope and 1 double sheeve block.'
    Assume the double block is bailed on the boom. No listing of two single blocks mounted (if I remember, about 3' apart) to the top of the beam at the aft end of the cockpit... as a tackle. Because of the huge rear hatch there was no place to mount the traveler's dangerous predessor: the Horse!
    Last edited by ebb; 12-03-2012 at 10:03 AM.

  9. #54
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    Here's another discussion about twin mainsheets vs traveler.

    http://www.sailnet.com/forums/sailbo...ainsheets.html

    I happen to really like the new traveler on my Ariel that I was lucky to buy from Chance. Trimming away the weather helm with small adjustments to the position of her traveler makes the Ariel sail more controlled and faster.

  10. #55
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    pro & cons

    Thanks Ben!


    Can understand the traveler system is more trim and concise
    When sailing an A/C you have the sheets and car ajustment line on the tiller and on your feet. You get used to it.

    Having the traveler on the bridge deck in the companionway as suggested in the blue-line above, or anywhere else in the cockpit, is plain rediculous. Actually reckless, especially with kids & guests aboard.
    That's the way I feel. I think it is a concession to fashion like high-heels and pointy toes.
    Having the traveler in the back of the cockpit, it still is a dangerous machine.
    And it's probably a PITA if you need parts for it.

    By contrast, having twin 5-part tackles (per our diagrams above) to deal with when tacking seems like a load of trouble with TEN lines to take care of. Slacking one main sheet, taking up on the other in 20knots, while steering and tending the jibsheet seems like herding snakes.
    SO, it mainly is ALL that line that has to be controlled.....has a lot going against it.*

    Can't see 100s of feet of bitter end loose and uncontrolled off the winches at the coamings. Mountains of braid. Maybe can see the two tackle lines coming aft from the mast as possibly a way to have some control over the miles of rope. (because it comes from one direction and would be furthest away from the tiller) What do we do...Have a green line and a red line to be able to sort the spaghetti?

    Sure would be great to hear how twin sheets is managed from someone who's spent a little time sailing with the rig.

    There is a Bingham drawing of a very tidy double sheet arrangement on page 223 of the 2nd edition of Spurr's Boatbook.
    But there is no description how it works in practice, no tips on alternative rigging of the sheet, no photos - which makes me think the author has never used it.

    There may a plus in multi-part tackles, which is that a honking winch may not be necessary to tweek the sheet beause the many parts of the tackle ease the work.
    ....that is an assumption on my part.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________
    *OK Let's take the 5-part tackle (altho three or four part seems more reasonable) and ballpark the probable length of line needed with the boom out to the shrouds. Boom approx 12'. Circumference of 12' circle is 113.4'. Divide by 4 = 28'. But the lines will more than likely be straight from boom end to the stern, say 25'. Five parts of line is 125' with the boom out. 250' with both tackles out, as they will be. Both sheets must be handled at the same time, one tackle under tension, the other limp, hauling in and letting them out - with the correct side being winched & cinched....at the correct moment. Add halyards, reefing lines, and blood. Marinara!

    Can see a couple large OPEN bags hanging on the seat fronts for the tackle ends.
    Last edited by ebb; 12-11-2012 at 09:59 AM.

  11. #56
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    The other advantage is that the traveler, can be quickly and easily dumped in case things get hairy. I installed a traveler on the stern and am very happy with it

  12. #57
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    traveler on the stern

    Sounds really interesting.
    How about some photos?
    How do you adjust the car - lead the blocks?

    __________________________________________________ _____________________________________________
    google Twin Mainsheet System
    a photo may show up of a 1970 Cal 29 'Seafever' with a blue canvas dodger. It is in Images.
    It's on a SailNet Forum Thread 'Boomvang or mainsheet traveler?' pg4, post #35
    Sure is a handsome boat!

    It shows the slanted up angle the boom will be on litlgull.
    It shows a full time stand-up cockpit. The twin tackles make a very recognizable 'A' shape.
    While the Cal 29 cockpit goes to the transom, it easy to imagine the rear deck of an Ariel at about the location of the end plates in the picture.

    What's not to like?
    Last edited by ebb; 12-06-2012 at 03:59 PM.

  13. #58
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    See Travler Car

    This is a photo of the traveler car
    Attached Images  

  14. #59
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    Pearson Traveler System

    Hi,
    This is exactly what I would like to do with my traveler. Can you give me a list of the parts that you used to make the system? I currently have what I believe is the original traveler car.
    Thanks,
    Rob Rotondo

  15. #60
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    Garahauer Traveler

    Rob,
    I got the Garhauer traveler, I have had not trouble with it. I believe the entire setup is $395

    https://www.garhauermarine.com/trave...eler-mt-1.html

    I think that is the on in the photo of my boat Francine.

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