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Thread: The album of Ariel #422

  1. #121
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    ...and looking aft follows. It appears that the only 'structural' member here is another piece of plywood of the same thickness as the bulkhead, lightly tabbed into place. I'll definitely have to strengthen this area for the mast step.
    Attached Images  
    Last edited by epiphany; 11-06-2006 at 08:05 AM.
    Kurt - Ariel #422 Katie Marie
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  2. #122
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    Katie has such NICE CLEAN bilges...

    I had NO idea that there was so much room down there under the forward step up..... I was hoping to stow some extra stuff in there myself, now I KNOW I will be.

    It is interesting to me that Katie has a small block formed into the port side in on the deck in this area. Faith has the same block.... but I have not noticed it on any other Ariels I have seen...

    Does anyone know what this tille block/cleat might be for?

    (on edit: the one shown in post #119).


    s/v 'Faith'

    1964 Ariel #226
    Link to our travels on Sailfar.net

  3. #123
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    Craig -

    Maybe that is where the "heat control valv" was located?
    Kurt - Ariel #422 Katie Marie
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  4. #124
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    Kurt
    That bilge looks like an operating theater!!! What the heck? It almost appears the bilge was painted before the soles went in. I never found anything that looked that good anywhere on 113. Did you do that? Surely it didn't leave the factory like that. Did you cut the first hole up there or was there a smaller hatch in the sole up there?

    I can't wait to see the photos of the upcoming work.

    Boat junkie, Boat drunk, whatever, that's me....

  5. #125
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    Hi Tony -

    I'm not sure when the bilge was painted, but it must have been at the factory, since there was no access there prior to yesterday. The color is also around the edge of the cabin sole and the main bilge, but is not inside the under-bunk settee lockers, though. It's some kind of hella tough paint, maybe even pigmented resin - IIRC, the settee base tabbing was placed *on top of* this mystery gray coating.

    My boat is a weirdo, I guess. (Hey, that's fitting! ;D) She didn't have diagonal braces on the forward side of the main bulkhead, either. Maybe this is because she was late in the production run (18 hulls or so from last), or maybe she was customized at the factory for whoever the original owner was? I don't know if they did such a thing, but you would assume that they did...

    Perhaps we could be called 'boat drunkies' lol
    Kurt - Ariel #422 Katie Marie
    --------------------------------------------------
    sailFar.net
    Small boats, long distances...

  6. #126
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    Table for 2 (berth for 1)

    (This here be a looong post. )

    Last Sunday I was, as ever, contemplating the boat, and more specifically, my interior and overall plans for the boat.

    When I first dropped the mast and cut away the bulkhead a bit ago, I'd planned to construct and install a strongback straightaway. Gradually, as I tried to come up with what would (for me) be the 'bestmost' way to do that, I realized that I needed to give more thought to the overall interior before making the strongback, since it will all be tied together. Everything in these boats adds to or takes away from everything else, I know. So I've held off on the strongback while I figured out my overall plan, which was close to being fully conceived, but not quite.

    One thing I will do which quite literally will tie the exterior rigging into the interior plans is to go to hull-mounted chainplates. I want them to be easily inspect-able and maintainable from the inside of the boat as well as the outside. Since interior stuff will be all around (and maybe over) the attachment points, I knew I had to finish my interior concept and place them within it before constructing anything.

    SO... that leads to last Sunday, and interior thoughts, which I'll get to after another bit I want to add in here real quick...

    A couple of weeks ago I got in touch with James Baldwin, 2-time circumnavigator aboard the Triton "Atom". He's a really nice guy. I spoke with him about his voyages, boat, collisions, and unsinkability. I told him of all my plans regarding my construction with the ultimate goal of unsinkability, and he is of the opinion that it will all work. ( Kewl! ) Until last Sunday, though, my design was unbalanced. I had good lockers planned for everywhere but the port berth, which I plan to use as my primary place of rest.

    The 'default' berth is just under the waterline, and keeping that area open in case of a hull breach would allow a huge space for water, taking away from flotation *and* balance, if the boat were flooded. It would also be a 'light' area of the boat, so I had to counterbalance it with a near-equally empty area in the v-berth to control heeling. Not very efficient, and efficiency is an important consideration for what I am trying to do. I need to use every possible part of the boat.

    Quick mention of 2 other "wishes" I've had for the boat: a dinette w/table (for comfort and usability, a la "Braveheart"), and an interior seat where I could see out the cabin deadlights when belowdecks.

    I'd thought about the dinette a while back, but had pretty much decided that it was out. I plan to use the area under both cabin berths for water tankage (bladders) and flotation, so I didn't want to cut part of that out for the footroom needed if there was a dinette.

    As far as the seat, I thought I might be able to, at some point in time, add a mount somewhere for a pedestal seat, like those you see on a bass boat. Maybe not the best solution, but a possibility...

    I hadn't considered either of these in quite a long time.

    But the brain works in mysterious ways, and that leads (at last) to last Sunday, when I realized I might be able to have a dinette *on top of* the current port berth, a dinette which would also convert into a berth. By making it to the height of the current counter top, it would be plenty long enough for sleeping, would give me storage underneath the ends *and* a footwell, without the need to get into the area where my water tanks and flotation will be. Eureka!

    I tossed the idea around in my head this past week, and did some measuring. It seemed like it would work, so yesterday I got busy and slapped together a proof-of-concept dinette/berth. I disassembled the proof-of-concept v-berth storage bins , and used those pieces to make up a not-pretty, but working, version of the dinette idea.

    It is great! Sitting at it, the view out the deadlights is perfect, and there is enough room for 2 people to sit across from each other comfortably (if not expansively). I had my dock neighbor, who is 6' 1" tall, try it out, and there was plenty of headroom for him.

    The 'table' part drops down between the seats to make a normal Ariel-length single berth (which has a more-level view out the companionway). I did sit up a bit quickly this morning and hit my head on the underside of the sidedeck (not too hard, though, thankfully), but I imagine that I'll learn not to do that pretty quickly.

    Right now this is just roughed in, but it works. I have a bunch of ideas to make it much more polished in its final form (fiddles for the table, folding seatback for the after seat, etc...). It helps solve a few problems, and gives me those 'wishes'. The storage underneath the ends allows me to balance the boat better, and will provide more closed space which can be sealed against H2O ingress to add to the overall flotation. I have the table hung from the overhead at it's outer end for support, instead of from
    underneath as was done on "Braveheart", and I'll probably keep that element of the design.

    Enough babbling, here are some pictures:



    Kurt - Ariel #422 Katie Marie
    --------------------------------------------------
    sailFar.net
    Small boats, long distances...

  7. #127
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    Sep 2001
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    San Rafael, CA
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    Dinette

    Kurt, the mockup looks great! Definitely like the openness of the shelves worked in to the design. And
    "A view out the deadlights"
    is a catchy future chapter heading if I ever read one.

    For my large frame in 338, the only seating available will be the dinette.
    I'll have, rather than the tanks, more traditional stowage, deep stowage under the seats, because
    looking out the deadlights is absolutely necessary for a cruiser! Especially along a dark and stormy coastline....

    And sitting in an Ariel at a level to do that requires a dinette, either a double or single to be remodeled in. And when putting on the dog, with an actual table, we'll be able to dine with guests, rather than cramping a buffet.

    Often read fore and aft seating put down by sailers in tippy boats - that settees are better for bracing in a seaway - BUT a couple of pillows can wedge a body pretty good. Not too hard to figure out a way to scooch sideways, Right?


    Making lockers 'waterproof' is a good way to think... but how realistic is it actually? Found some nice cheap nylon locker drains with a washered screwin plug for dry lockers. And ply lids are out, so we need large screwin access plates for any lockers around the waterline. But I'm worried about mold and ventilation and such. And will the waterline outside really relate to the 1/2 bulkheads inside?
    Last edited by ebb; 12-03-2006 at 11:34 AM.

  8. #128
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    Thanks, Ebb.

    I'll be able to have, at any point in time, "guest", but not "guests". It is a huge improvement in the 'sociability' of the cabin, I saw that last night with 2 different people at 2 different times. It's also made a huge difference in what it's like to be below when solo, being able to see all around outside while seated.

    Have already considered adding some type of foot support which will be easily reachable while seated more-or-less athwartships in the dinette seat. It'll help not just when heeling, but also with shifting the position of your 'bum' every so often.

    This dinette is high enough that there really is only room for one set of shoulders per seat. Eye-level is right at the top of the deadlight frame when seated. I need the height to use the counter space for sleeping feet, but with seats mounted a bit lower, and seats just a few inches wider (athwartships), the dinette would have room for 4 good friends.

    When I talked to Jim of "Atom" a couple weeks ago, he brought up the fact that many folks talk about mildew in closed lockers, but that he didn't see anywhere near enough for it to be considered a problem. He agreed with me that on a small boat, you go into your lockers often enough that they remain ventilated to the point that mildew worries are over-rated.

    AFA waterproof lockers - dividing the wide-open interior of a boat up into many smaller spaces that can be sealed well enough, even if not *totally* waterproof, to slow a leak to a trickle would make a big difference in the case of flooding. Though I am of course shooting for 'waterproof', I'll be content with something that will be at least 'very slow leaking' until I can effect a repair...

    I don't think that the bulkheads line up on the actual waterline anywhere, as factory-built. Even if we put them at or above the waterline, they'll be underwater mostly when heeled while sailing, right? I'm trying instead to put in all of my flotation below the line at which the transverse stringer runs along the hull at the shelves. That's as far as I am willing to sink.
    Kurt - Ariel #422 Katie Marie
    --------------------------------------------------
    sailFar.net
    Small boats, long distances...

  9. #129
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    I remember that and keep it in mind. If lockers are kept clean and dry. they probably will stay that way.

    Naw, about 6 for supper?.. I meant a one seat dinette or a two seat - both single! Possible quests sit maybe on the ladder and in 338 in the open V-berth cove. That's four, everybody more is in the cockpit under the bimini!

    The dinette in 338 will have forward facing navigation as another use. And as I visualize it at the moment, about half of the table surface will hinge UP to be hooked on the cabin side for a double berth option. Super quick 'conversion' if the bracing can be worked out. As we've seen in other Ariels, the only true double berth would extend virtually side to side. In port or at anchor alone, I'd like a wider berth - that will be easy if kept within the dinette dimension, no way a double. For a double, it shouldn't be too hard to have extensions and props across the aisle at the dinette seat height. Just as long as the cabin can be returned to normal operation without an engineering degree.
    What are you going to do?

    I'm a freshaire fiend. I'll be sleeping in the cockpit if at all possible, but the best way to do that?.. that's another bouillabaisse.
    Last edited by ebb; 12-03-2006 at 12:24 PM.

  10. #130
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    Ebb -

    I've figured out already that when I make it for good, the dinette will be widened just a smidge. A couple more inches of width to the seats will be perfect, and will substantially increase their comfort and usability. Not that what I have now is bad - it's working fine - but since I am building it in, I might as well make it that little bit better, right?

    I tried an athwartships double for a bit since so many other Arielers here use it and like it. The way I set it up was so that port side was head-end (just an open, usual Ariel port berth), and it narrowed across the middle of the boat to strb'd, the designated foot-end (where there was in an alcove I'd created in the bins I have simulating cabinets there). Kind of like a v-berth shape, but across the boat. I did happen to have some company when she was set up like that, and it worked out well and comfortable.

    So with this dinette setup, what I've thought so far is to echo that shape. Have the forward seat have a pull-out area (like the 'pull out shelf' you can see to strb'd in earlier pictures), to be able to widen the forward end of the berth. The table, in it's down position, could be shifted a few inches to strb'd to aid in the widening of the middle parts. This would be an in port/at anchor berth, when needed.

    I also still have the option open to make the v-berth a double, up on top of the lockers there. I am undecided about this, because then I'd be toting around all that cushioning, while only rarely (if ever) using it. However, foam floats really well, so more foam might not be a bad thing.

    I cut up the berth cushion yesterday eve, into sections appropos of the dinette sections. Sewed up some quicky covers for it at my shop, and it's made setup/takedown of the dinette much easier.

    It's difficult to relate just how much more 'homey' and liveable the dinette has made the interior of the boat. Suffice to say that the amount of hominess is now much huge-er than before.

    Like you, I too tend to spend more time sleeping in the cockpit when at anchor (and even when hove-to for a long nap, if the weather and seas aren't too bad). Makes it much easier to get a quick visual sweep. Puts a smile on my face to wake up gazing into the sky...
    Kurt - Ariel #422 Katie Marie
    --------------------------------------------------
    sailFar.net
    Small boats, long distances...

  11. #131
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    Nice!

    When you make the seat-backs, they would be more comfy if they are rounded and angled back a bit

  12. #132
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    Pete - Your advice is already well-taken. My temporary back support is neither, and not very comfortable at all.
    Kurt - Ariel #422 Katie Marie
    --------------------------------------------------
    sailFar.net
    Small boats, long distances...

  13. #133
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    De-Tank, De-Tank (props to Herve V. ;) )

    Well, since Tony G won't post any pictures for us to drool over on this cold wintry night, I'll post some rather drab pics of my own...

    Today was, at last, one I have thought of for a long, long time - DeTanking Day.

    I followed the manual instructions per the cut-out outline, and, when the plywood was pulled off, all stood revealed...
    Attached Images  
    Kurt - Ariel #422 Katie Marie
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    Small boats, long distances...

  14. #134
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    Look at all that Monel glory, just as good today as it was nearly 40 years ago. The folks at Aquamaid produced good tanks for Ariels (part #14012 at the factory... ):
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    Kurt - Ariel #422 Katie Marie
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  15. #135
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    In the corner of this pic is the liveaboard boat-refitters *favorite* tool.
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    Kurt - Ariel #422 Katie Marie
    --------------------------------------------------
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    Small boats, long distances...

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