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Thread: The album of Ariel #422

  1. #91
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    But since it's a drawing, comments are acceptable, right?
    Anyway, the q'berth looks more comfortable now. If it isn't used for bunking, the stowage it represents is more accessable. AND it's still a settee. Tho you may have to sling a back support under the shelf?


    Comments are *always* welcome. The foot area of the q'berth could indeed act as stowage, and I do plan for some seatback storage areas - perhaps a la Frank's #50 Revival...

    Interesting you have brought the bridge deck forward. This would create athwartship stowage if it is designed as a locker with lids in the c'pit seats.

    I see how you saw that. lol I wasn't planning on bringing that forward, I was pushing the bulkhead *below the level of the current counter* aft. The drawing is too 2-D too show that, I need a shadow there or something.

    But why not put the breaker and panel 'box' you show into the space above the berth? Design it as a door to provide access behind the displays.
    Then that table there might become the chart table, perhaps with a further pull out extension?


    Never got around to removing the panel from the drawing, haven't given a lot of thought as to where to put it just yet. Into that box with the other electronics would be a good spot. Having a pull-out table there is a good idea, and will be filed as a possibility.

    Regarding the ladder - I have an idea you might be able to use, I'll do a simple GIMP of it and post it in a few minutes.

    Master stateroom double is the V-berth, right? With no pull-out settee in the main?

    Well, you got me on that one. All this time everyone has been saying, basically, "What, no double???". As I see no prospects for a First Mate in the foreseeable future, I've been planning on not worrying about having a double very much. But yesterday evening after posting, I had a brainstorm, inspired in part by crawling into the ex-icebox area and imaging your pilot berth. I'll be GIMP'ing it up in order to present it to "The Modifications Committee" here, and see what kind of feedback it generates. It may well solve many of my quandries, and is a far departure from anything I've seen done yet. Not that that is what I am trying to do - I'm just trying to keep thinking "out of the box", hoping that by doing so I may stumble across workable ideas that hadn't come to me any other way.
    Kurt - Ariel #422 Katie Marie
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  2. #92
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    OK, here's the folding ladder idea. I thought of this a while back. Basically, one leg would be permanent, affixed between cabin sole and top, the other leg would be hinged on the steps, opening the ladder would fold it down. In the closed position, it would take up minimal space, and could act as a handhold. I've been thinking to orient it so that it was aligned fore and aft (off to one side or the other of the companionway), but an athwartships configuration would work also. The problem with athwartships is that it would either be vertical down from the companionway (not good in a pitching,rocking boat with wet footwear on, I'd imagine), or it would have to be set some distance out from the companionway, into the cabin.

    Here's a drawing:
    Attached Images  
    Kurt - Ariel #422 Katie Marie
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  3. #93
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    OK, this is the other idea...

    Basically, it is a U shaped platform at the aft end of the cabin, with the cabinetry/stowage forward of the legs of the U on either side. The middle of the U will be where the ladder (a telescoping ladder, as before, *not* the ladder in the above drawing) comes down from the companionway. This space - the middle of the U - would have a drop-in platform/cushion that would make it into a double. The pilot berth would extend aft under one cockpit locker as before.

    This balances out the weight of the cabinet stowage, makes the double an athwartships berth, and still provides a pilot berth for at sea, when it would be unlikely that the double would be in use were there ever 2 souls aboard. The legs of the U would make for an athwartships dinette, if a table were implemented.

    This idea is still very much in the developmental stage, but I think it might be workable. The drawing below is just to illustrate the concept, and is not at all close to scale.

    I'm wondering how structural is the aft bulkhead in it's original position? Could a lower part of it be moved aft 12" or so without affecting the integrity of the hull? I think a double should be 48" wide or so. That puts the forward edges of the U arms 2/3 of the way towards the current forward edge of the berths, leaving only 40" of countertop space for each side. The countertops will have a sink, stove, and icebox opening in them, leaving not a lot of room to spread a chart, or whatever else the flat space might be used for - food prep, etc... Nudging the U berth aft would give a little more room to play with.

    Edit: Oops! Uploaded a 1024 wide drawing. Scaled it back...
    Attached Images  
    Last edited by epiphany; 12-11-2005 at 09:27 PM.
    Kurt - Ariel #422 Katie Marie
    --------------------------------------------------
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    Small boats, long distances...

  4. #94
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    Merry Christmas everyone, from Kurt, the CrewDogs, and Katie Marie! (If Christmas isn't your holiday, insert appropriate celebration!)
    Attached Images  
    Last edited by epiphany; 12-10-2005 at 07:49 PM.
    Kurt - Ariel #422 Katie Marie
    --------------------------------------------------
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  5. #95
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    Thumbs up

    GREAT X-MAS CARD !! The best to you too Kurt and the entire crew here.Hope we all sail more and work/worry less in 06.Health and happiness to all.

  6. #96
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    Thank you Mr. Frank, and the same to you and yours!

    Yesterday, after the annual marina Christmas pig was picked clean and the revelry had ended, I set about changing Katie's interior to something resembling that last GIMP graphic above. It's gonna work (yay!) and, it seems that it'll work well. Slept athwartships last night, in the space just forward of the steps/original countertop. Come warmer weather, it will be nice to lie abed and gaze up through the open sliding hatch at the sky and stars. Have a lot of details to figure out, but I'll post here when there is new news...
    Kurt - Ariel #422 Katie Marie
    --------------------------------------------------
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  7. #97
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    I like that arrangement...check out the 'falmouth cutter 22ft'...It has a swing-up filler that makes it into a U-shape.It would be hard to beat that for space !! http://www.samlmorse.com/?a=falmouth_cutter
    Last edited by frank durant; 12-11-2005 at 08:18 AM.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by epiphany
    Merry Christmas everyone, from Kurt, the CrewDogs, and Katie Marie! (If Christmas isn't your holiday, insert appropriate celebration!)
    Bah humbug!
    Mike
    Totoro (Sea Sprite 23 #626)

  9. #99
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    LOL, Mike.

    You know, that really *is* a good picture (all the fluffy rain excepted). When I saw it, those shapely underwater Alberg lines, my breath drew up for just a second. Remember the old adage about wanting a boat that, whenever you are leaving it, you have to stop and look back *just one more time* before you walk out of sight? That's how I am with these boats - smitten like a sweaty palmed high school junior on prom night. lol

    Frank - I looked all over that site for an image depicting the swing-up filler you mentioned, didn't see it. Imagination will suffice, and besides, I saw a bunch of very nice pics anyway. Those are sweet boats, very shippy. Lotta room and function for a 22'er.

    And funny that you should mention that boat, because it was Mike above who sent me a picture some time back of the FC22 interior (below), a picture that I just found on Friday or Saturday in my old email account. It was this picture which made me start to think of the possibility of an aft U-berth. Looking at it, it is easy to imagine a U berth below the companionway, unseen, and the rest of the pic shows what will basically be my setup once done.

    Couple of notes on that:

    {ramble on}

    I have a friend who is gutting and rebuilding from bare-hull-out a Tartan 26. He is planning a very similar setup to what I have chosen through my "research", although he hasn't made up his mind totally on it yet. He also came to this interior config through a period of experimentation and some living aboard. I'd forgotten of his plans until Sunday, when some subconcious thought connected a couple of barely used neurons, and I went to his website and rooted around to rediscover his plan drawings. Interesting how the brain works. His ideas must have rested deep in my head for a long time, jarred from hiding by Mikes pic and some moving about of my storage bins.

    Yesterday I took my settee cushion (I've only had one aboard since May or thereabouts, since I began playing with different layouts - and only 1 V-berth cushion too) to my shop, pulled the foam out and chopped it up. First, I cut away the hull-hugging curve, making the cushion a plain rectangle, about 23" wide, a shade over 6' long. Then I cut it into 2 pieces - 1 that is 24" long, and the other is the rest of the cushion. The long piece I cut halfway through in the middle, to make folding it into a 90 degree angle easier. Then I whipped up a couple of quicky covers for the pieces out of some Gore-Tex material. I brought the cushions back aboard last night for their first night of service. Worked great. I can leave the smaller cushion on one side of the boat, and fold the larger cushion into a seat shape on the other, the folded-up half resting against the hull, vertically. I think that eventually, though, there will be 3 pieces, the (when set up as a berth) center piece will just be set off to a side when not being slept upon.

    Since I've moved all of my storage containers around to this new configuration, Katie sits levelly now, heeling only a couple of degrees when Cap'n and one or more Crew have moved off center. Before, with all the stowage to one side, she wanted to maintain a constant (though slight) heel, even with counterbalancing weight placed up in the V-berth on the opposite side. For some reason, having most of the weight lined up athwartships gives the boat a different, better feel. It may well be that the weight is much closer to the CB, or just forward of it, with this configuration. That's a Good Thing, I think she'll have less of that "squatty" tendency now.

    Last, I am giving serious thought to pushing the berth-wall part of the aft bulhead back a foot or so, so that it would sit just forward of the cockpit locker hatch forward end. The cockpit footwell would project into the cabin over the center of the U berth if this was done, but at the same level as the current countertop, which should provide space enough for someone lying down there. If this mod was done, it would move the U-berth back far enough that the bottom inside edge of the U would be almost straight down from the companionway, not poking out underneath it. That extra foot of space along the current settees would allow me to leave in place the original hanging locker and drawers, both of which I find useful and handy. If I don't push back the bulkhead, I will probably have to remove the locker and drawers in the interest of countertop space. I think the work involved in either project would be basically about the same, so personal preference will basically be the deciding factor. If I move the aft bulkhead, I would put in place on the hull a low profile vertical stringer so as not to compromise any strength or stiffening the hull recieves from the bulkhead. Depending on how much room was under the cockpit footwell, a pull out (or simply removeable) dinette table could be made to fit/fix there, a la the Falmouth Cutter table. The legs of the U berth would act as dinette seats for the table, which would be at the current countertop height.

    Edit: I also wouldn't mind a little less volume in the cockpit footwell, in case of boarding seas. It's concievable that the forward foot or so of it could be rebuilt in order to accomplish this, while giving that over-berth area some additional height. Just a thought at this stage...

    Ebb - now the only thing I am lacking is seating at a height to allow level gazing out of the deadlights while seated. But, I have ideas for that, too.

    {ramble off}

    Y'all have a great day!
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    Last edited by epiphany; 12-13-2005 at 07:25 AM.
    Kurt - Ariel #422 Katie Marie
    --------------------------------------------------
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    Small boats, long distances...

  10. #100
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    Wink

    Wow....you gotta type faster than me...I'd be all day with that responce!! the cutter site has been changed..less pics .BUT the one you posted shows the 'flip-up filler' that makes it into a real nice U-shaped galley. Keep thinkin..have fun

  11. #101
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    "E", you could also use the chart table type pull out model for "temporary" counterspace all along the aft of the cabin and above your new sleeping quarters. Could be useful for cooking or navigating or whatever, i.e. when you're not sleeping in the space immediately below.

    A recent Ariel that was sold,"Tullen Tie" or something like that, had these pull outs. I may have downloaded some pictures of it at home. But it seemed like a very practical idea. (And yes, Bill, I 'searched' but didn't find that thread...)
    Mike
    Totoro (Sea Sprite 23 #626)

  12. #102
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    "Analog GIMPing"

    Believe me, I looked at those pull-outs with much interest.

    This sketch shows the above ideas.
    Attached Images  
    Kurt - Ariel #422 Katie Marie
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    Small boats, long distances...

  13. #103
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    Shot this pic last night under the light of the full moon. Note CrewDogs on foredeck.

    Kurt - Ariel #422 Katie Marie
    --------------------------------------------------
    sailFar.net
    Small boats, long distances...

  14. #104
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    Some shots of what I've done so far w/the bulkhead and strongback removal, and the "starting in" on the semi-temporary interior modification. Everything here is done rough, done just well enough that I can live with it for a while, see how it works, and then change it easily should I decide to do so when doing it up proper after I am sure that the design is right.

    Side note: I think I've mentioned here before that I would like to make the boat have positive flotation so that I won't need to carry a liferaft. Based on what James Baldwin has written up on his website in regards to "Atom", I'm ballparking 10 cu/ft of flotation per 1000 lbs of displacement. He calculated 86.5 cu/ft of float needed for his gross displacement of 9000 lbs. With that figure, he said erred on the side of caution. I am doing the same to *his* figures, figuring on a gross displacement of 6500 lbs for "Katie", needing 65 cu/ft of flotation when done. This is some 1400 lbs over the "factory" figure, which should give me a comfortable margin when she is loaded for a long trip.

    The compartmentalization I am building in will be a number of smaller, individual chambers which will serve dual purposes. Should the hull be breached, the chambers affected will be sealable in order to limit water ingress, while the other chambers will serve as watertight air pockets to provide flotation until in-water repairs can be done. There will also be a lot of foam used in the finished construction. So far, with what I've measured up based on what I have now, I shouldn't have any problem reaching my goal. Cool!

    OK, enough of that, on to the pics...

    I've cut away a lot of the bulkhead, enough to approximate what I'd like the final form to look like. Again, this is all very rough right now, with wires hanging out, and a coat of white latex painted not too carefully on some surfaces just to make them look a little better until they get ripped all the way out...
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    Kurt - Ariel #422 Katie Marie
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    Small boats, long distances...

  15. #105
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    As you can see, I used some of the original trim to "clean up" the look of all those rough cuts. It is simply trimmed to fit the new arrangement, in order to make it look halfway decent.

    In this shot and by looking closely, you can see the lines I penned onto the overhead which show the location of the mast base pad, and the outside dimensions of the new strongback. Edit: The original strongback/bulkhead provided support only about twice as wide as the dark area you can see here. The new one will be 3 times as wide.

    I'll be cutting back the overhead liner so that it butts into the after edge of the new strongback. I considered leaving it in place, but it is just too different of a shape from the inner deck skin. Also, it was apparently trimmed (sloppily) in place at the factory, and so there are cuts into the inner skin along that line that I want to repair prior to inserting the strongback.
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    Last edited by epiphany; 08-28-2006 at 06:06 AM.
    Kurt - Ariel #422 Katie Marie
    --------------------------------------------------
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    Small boats, long distances...

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