The album of Ariel #422

[CapnK]

Why do we consider our ill-implemented and inconsistently thick cabin trunk overhead liners to be sacrosanct?

[CapnK]

...like Dali, the thought so inspired me, I had to take a nap.

[CapnK]

The liner...

• allows condensation to form, mold to grow, water to travel unseen
• makes it difficult for our not-very properly seaworthy ports to remain leak-free
• provides little in insulation, and prevents further efforts in that area
• seems to have been more of a nod to aesthetics than to strength and seakeeping ability

It must go.

[Tony G]

Good to hear from you again Capt.

Your last post brings up four easily found, and valid points. To address your first post today..I dunno. Everything is fair game, right?

You could easily add thickness where needed for backing plates and around ports* using small pieces of teak or other suitable wood. While sanding and filling over head is no fun, our cabin top is quite a small area and could easily be knocked out in a weekend (albeit a full weekend). It would go much quicker than the shimming, clamping, filling and sanding, filling and sanding, filling and sanding course I pursued, and, in retrospect, a far more practical and attractive route. I say go for it!

What about the cockpit conversion? What has been happening on that front? I can't wait to see the setees/berth start to take shape. That will really define the area. I really like what you got going on with KM, and find the duration between your posts dang near unbearable.

*I was recently on James Baldwin's site looking at the '72 Alberg 30 he finished. The way he instaled the portlites in the main salon really caught my eye. It is indeed the K.I.S.S. principle in practice, and a far more elegant solution than I came up with. I wanted nice wood trim around the ports, but made it so ungodly complicated. Eh, some have it, some..not so much.

[mbd]

@Kurt - Someone sounds cranky and show us some more pics!
@Tony - Look at the pot calling the kettle black. Ditto on the pics ...and stay warm!

[ebb]

Don't know if you are seriously thinking about removing the liner.
Here are some ebbsters on that subject (without any how-to's!!)

When A338 had the cabin opened up, the V-berth area, which has no liner, had to be
spiffed up. That was a PITA. Took a large amount of prep, filling, fairing, and sanding
to get it presentable - even tho it is a pretty small space, it's also an awkward space,
with !@#$%^ overhead! Do the whole cabin to a aesthetically presentable condition would
be daunting. PRO, with the liner, it's already a fairly nice smooth!

The liner was put in by capturing the ends under the bulkheads, like it's smuuched on top of
the compression beam, likewise under the bridgedeck.... have to cut it out. Just cutting it
out of the accommodation will be a real treat. But, it's not more than 1/8" thick.
It must have been a PITA for the guys at Pearson to put it in! A338's liner was jacked up
crooked. Not impossible to deal with. Everytime you put a hole in it, you're in for a surprise.

Some PROs: The empty space between the cabin molding and the liner provides an extra
layer of insulation. There may be condensation inside (unlikely under the top which has a
balsa core). Yes, along the coach sides, but the sides are mostly 'glass' anyway.
Side decks are cored, and the liner is somewhat tight to the deck there.

Using the liner around the windows to create a hidden internal frame around the windows
will remove the flex from the sides...and consequently stop the leaking there. But Pearson
designed the stupid windows to capture the liner and sort of clamp it close to the cabin
with the window glass floating in the space between. Doesn't work, does it? because the
liner is not in the same place all around the cut outs.
Squeezing a gel mix that contains chopped fiber in between the two moldings means it will
no longer be squeezable - this may mean that when reinstalling original frames the tiny
#4 machine screws that dead end into the inside frame will probably not work anymore.
Forget how much bury in the frame there is for that connect, but not much, like an 1/8".

Ruminating on that fastening system, it isn't hard to imagine these porch windows blown
out by a half ton green comber*. So another window system may have to be devised.
The PRO on that, imco, is to spend time, $$$, and energy there to solve the problem by
USING THE LINER AROUND THE OPENING TO HELP. Obviously no more leaks into the liner.
A338 has slab-on 3/8" lexan now, with NO fastenings (the ones all around the lens) showing
inside. If there was time I'd do it a little differently now....but essentially feel our large
lights - that I particularly like (sacrosanct!) - will now survive... anything.

Another PRO is that when attaching fixtures like rails outside, you can use the liner to create
hidden hockey puck backings for individual fastenings. So instead of a block of wood, a fender
washer under a nut will do. Depending on how much space you have between the moldings
(no surprise it'll be different in every boat) could figure out how to install the nuts so they
don't protrude below the liner. Which is something my skull appreciates.
The cabin's primary laminate is substantial...like 1/4". Plenty strong enough for railings without
backing plates. Winches are something else....yet on the cabin top the pull load is horizontal.
So I don't believe a huge chunk of backing is necessary.

A338 has its inside handrails below the windows. The fastenings are hidden from the outside,
nothing shows, couldn't have been done without the liner. The rail is closed, so that it becomes
a narrow tray....to collect condensation!

Not to say that this couldn't be done with wood trim, ie fastening stuff thru the cabin molding
- sans the liner...
Of course I've never seen what the cabin looks like with the liner removed. Maybe it'd be a
piece of cake to doll up - and given how small the cabin living space, bet without the liner it'll
be a noticeable improvement.
.................................................. .................................................. .......................................
As delivered, our vessels were/are wet boats. If condensation is to be an upgrade, exposed
interior parts of the hull have to be insulated. Another chunk of time and money.
.................................................. .................................................. .......................................
*Have heard it said - and it is plausible - that windows are taken out by water action on the
lee side, boat leaning over in rough weather, rather than by greenies coming in over the bow......

[CapnK]

Well, when I got up this morning, I had no idea that Katie would be "liner-less" by the end of today.

She's halfway there, as of this writing. Had to take a break, hot work on an almost windless day!

Not sure, but thinking I may reuse liner on cabin trunk sides, trimmed away from the overhead and aft end, then glassed back in to strengthen the cabin trunk sides. Not as much material there as one would expect, given the rest of the boat.

Anyone wanna buy a set of frames/windows that are in pretty good shape?

[frank durant]

Nice to see Katie back getting attention!
Regular updates and pics please 😄😄

[CapnK]

(Is "Go Advanced" reply option not working for y'all? It isn't for me... Now I have to re-type my answer, grrrrr. So now it's shorter than it was before.)

OK, now I see it saying it took me too long , gave me an "Expired Token" error. Wuzzat? I ain't quick enough at these, I guess.

Pics: well, now, on top of the above, it is asking for a URL to the pics, and I cannot upload them. I guess that it will have to be in a thread at PlasticClassicForum, since only "Quick Reply" works for me here. :/ I'll post a link later today. But I did get it all removed yesterday, the second half of the job took 1/4 the time of the first. Is that a Law, like Murphy's?

[ebb]

Kurt, if this helps:
To get to talk here, Post Quick Reply does not function for member.

I have to use the Go Advanced box to get in here on your thread.

When composing:
when I hit 'edit' I get this full width (long line) page with Save in a box
-- followed be Go Advanced in a box -- followed by Cancel in a box -- bottom right
all in a row.

Save takes me back with original text and new text changes to the public post page.

Go Advanced takes me to a half column EDIT page that has access to the smilies.
One set works for the title of the post. The other, icons can be used in the text.

As a member, the Quick Reply box does not work when I want to reply to your post.
Have to use the Go Advanced to be able to post or discuss.
I don't believe if you are in 'guest' mode that you can be in here.

It's "always" been like this. But maybe is an anomaly unique to Bill's V-Bulletin.
I will now go to Submit Reply!


Relationship with computer is personal. Reboot both on screen and manual.
Are you still 'signed in'? Dunno nothin bout pooters, this is only from experience.
Did you by mistake hit 'Log Out' (top right) last time?

[CapnK]

Howdy Ebb - Apparently, it timed out on me, I took too long without an input or something, so then when I tried I was denied. If I hit "Reply" at bottom of last message, I can get the full Advanced response screen. It is a vBulletin thing I reckon, and I am more used to SMS and phpBB Forum softwares, yes.