The album of Ariel #422

[ebb]

Kurt, I can look at something a number of times befor it sinks in.
Let me ask this: are you at all worried about taking the (let's call it) spaciousness of the cabin away by having the long counter/stowage on the starboard side?
I ask because I'm looking to do the same by raising of platform levels in 338 and I'm really worried about stuffing the old girl like a thankgiving turkey. I want to sit at the dinette/chart table and look out all four windows. That raises the seat up maybe 6". And taking that as the double bunk conversion height, it makes for a lot more stowage, but at what cost?

338's bit of quarter berth that sticks into the cabin is too low to sit on (except when getting in and ducking under the bridge deck), and would only be accessable by moving the ladder and bending the dinette seat forward. If it is used as a berth you could raise your knees. At least I assume so, not tested with cushion.

Your drawing has me seeing 338's portside opposite the dinette having something very similar to your starboard side. Maybe something not as wide following off the galley - a workbench, double wide shelf, like that - but still enuf cubic space for a double bunk coming across the aisle.

But it could still a good idea to have a single fore and aft seat where one could scrunch down in with head under the deck. Assume bracing oneself on either tack.

Anyway.
Wondering what your thinking might be on our cabin viz roomyness? I worry about it.
338 may have even more of her compression bulkhead removed and a laminated ARCH bent in - as a way of getting more side room and somehow incorporating the Vberth wholely into the cabin. In fact, the height of the Vberth brought into the cabin as the platform/seat datum. 7", I think.

Raising the bar, er, bunk, so to speak.

[CapnK]

Shot this pic last night under the light of the full moon. Note CrewDogs on foredeck.

[CapnK]

Some shots of what I've done so far w/the bulkhead and strongback removal, and the "starting in" on the semi-temporary interior modification. Everything here is done rough, done just well enough that I can live with it for a while, see how it works, and then change it easily should I decide to do so when doing it up proper after I am sure that the design is right.

Side note: I think I've mentioned here before that I would like to make the boat have positive flotation so that I won't need to carry a liferaft. Based on what James Baldwin has written up on his website in regards to "Atom", I'm ballparking 10 cu/ft of flotation per 1000 lbs of displacement. He calculated 86.5 cu/ft of float needed for his gross displacement of 9000 lbs. With that figure, he said erred on the side of caution. I am doing the same to *his* figures, figuring on a gross displacement of 6500 lbs for "Katie", needing 65 cu/ft of flotation when done. This is some 1400 lbs over the "factory" figure, which should give me a comfortable margin when she is loaded for a long trip.

The compartmentalization I am building in will be a number of smaller, individual chambers which will serve dual purposes. Should the hull be breached, the chambers affected will be sealable in order to limit water ingress, while the other chambers will serve as watertight air pockets to provide flotation until in-water repairs can be done. There will also be a lot of foam used in the finished construction. So far, with what I've measured up based on what I have now, I shouldn't have any problem reaching my goal. Cool!

OK, enough of that, on to the pics...

I've cut away a lot of the bulkhead, enough to approximate what I'd like the final form to look like. Again, this is all very rough right now, with wires hanging out, and a coat of white latex painted not too carefully on some surfaces just to make them look a little better until they get ripped all the way out...

[CapnK]

As you can see, I used some of the original trim to "clean up" the look of all those rough cuts. It is simply trimmed to fit the new arrangement, in order to make it look halfway decent.

In this shot and by looking closely, you can see the lines I penned onto the overhead which show the location of the mast base pad, and the outside dimensions of the new strongback. Edit: The original strongback/bulkhead provided support only about twice as wide as the dark area you can see here. The new one will be 3 times as wide.

I'll be cutting back the overhead liner so that it butts into the after edge of the new strongback. I considered leaving it in place, but it is just too different of a shape from the inner deck skin. Also, it was apparently trimmed (sloppily) in place at the factory, and so there are cuts into the inner skin along that line that I want to repair prior to inserting the strongback.

[CapnK]

Looking forward, you can see to port the first of the large compartments I am putting into the vberth area. I'd been thinking to leave a 20-24" wide "channel" inbetween matching cabinets up there, and having that channel serve as a bunk if ever needed. Now, and instead, the cabinet to port will have a 6' long, 24" wide flat surface on top which can be used as the same. Going this route should provide more storage (which equals more closed space for float), better round-the-body airflow whenever it is being slept on, and a nice wide working surface.

[CapnK]

A vertical composition showing what it looks like from the companionway/cockpit.

[ebb]

Kurt,
That asymetric open 'look' is great, ain't it!
Can understand your quest for a flatter beam. Wonder what you will come up with? If you are keeping the original lockers, would support s.s. 'pipes' at the corners be in the plan? Maybe inset a little (set off the corners outboard) the eye might accept them more as 'cosmetic' than structural - and keep that wonderful openness.

If I hadn't already committed 338 to its deep internal beam - your photos show implicitly how important no break in the cabin/deck line really is - I would seriously consider putting the beam ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE CABIN!!!
If one could engineer a flat beam and turn the corners down to the deck (where interior knees would pick up the load and take it to the hull) I think, with rounded Albergian corners, such a beam would hardly be noticed. Well. not exactly. But I'd mock up a model in foam to find out.

The eliptical round of the inside cabin is really great and helps to give the interior a larger feeling. One of the huge problems with the Ariel is gaining stowage. It looks like you are succeeding.

Never mentioned with enclosed 'watertite' lockers is the issue of moisture and mold. And actual watertightness in the event of a surprise holing or knock-down. How do you gasket the lids and doors? On another thread, just recalled Yves Galinas' A-30, that survived a 360 - and the reason it did, we might suppose, is that he isolated the four bulkheads. Opening up the interior makes locker waterproofing moist important. I'm here waiting for your calculations on the cubics!!!

[CapnK]

Ebb -

I ***love*** the openness. Before, this boat didn't seem any bigger than my old Com-Pac 23. Now, I know it is, and it feels "freer". It also seems a little cooler - I think that air is circulating better, being wide open like this.

Funny you should mention an exterior deck beam. When I was gazing at the underside of the strongback-less deck for the first time, I started giving thought to that space between the inner and outer deck skin...

Could be that it would be possible to remove the outer skin and coring in a wide configuration like I've been thinking, and replace it with something structurally stronger. If that structure could spread load across the cabin trunk top out to the sides, and was supported on the underside by the vertical poles, it would work nicely, and I don't think would have to be very visually noticeable at all from the exterior. On the inside, you could have an unbroken span. It would be pretty easy to bed a metal plate between many layers of glass inside that space. If, as you propose, that metal plate wrapped around and conformed to the whole cabin top shape, and was thick enough for the stresses, it might not even need any interior support. Bliss!

Hmmm... Gad, you got me started again...

Re: cubics and related such:

Moisture and mold: I don't think it will be much of a problem. Why? Because these are relatively small boats. There just _aren't_ any lockers which remain closed long enough for it to develop to any appreciable degree. I've found that I am constantly diving into every storage bin I have, because I only have aboard that which I *need*. Maybe on a larger boat lockers sit unopened long enough for mildew to be an issue, because you have places to put infrequently used "stuff" and forget about it, but I haven't found that to be the case on this boat or my last one. Even if I don't use something much, it still gets regular exposure to fresh air because it sits near something which I do use on a regular basis, and so its locker gets ventilated. Keep in mind that where I am, we have 6+ months of the year with temps regularly exceeding 80*, and humidity rarely drops below 70% - prime mildew country, and it just hasn't been a problem at all. The only place I've seen mildew develop is on the inside of the hull. The lockers will be finished with a slick surface on the inside, to make cleanup the matter of a few simple wipes.

Flotation: I'm picking it up wherever I can.

Right now, for this temporary structure of compartments, I am using scrap plywood I have gathered up (recycling ), but for the end product, I'll be using sheet foam instead. I'm leaning towards polyurethane foam and polyester resins, not epoxy, mostly because of price, and also because of ease-of-use (i'm very familiar with PU/PE construction). For the cabinet structures, they'll be a slab of foam skinned with glass, cut and used just like plywood, after they've cured hard (laid up outside of boat). For install, the side which faces into the boat may get a layer of formica or luan for impact resistance. Just the structure of the compartments I will be building in, made in this manner, will net several cubic feet of positive flotation, and be lighter than wood to boot.

I'll be stuffing glassed-over foam into all odd and difficult to reach places. I've been wanting to insulate the hull anyway, so I plan to put 2" of foam up against the hull throughout the interior of the boat - this will bring the inner wall of the hull level with the stringer which runs along it, and will give 8+ cubic feet of flotation by itself. I think I can get 10-15cu/ft into the cockpit lockers and under-cockpit area. I'm going to use bladders for water tanks, I may lay them into compartments where all the extra space around the bladder is foamed. The storage compartments up in the v-berth will give about 25 cu/ft of closed space. In the end, the closed-off and foamed spaces will total more than 65 cu/ft, because some of them will be partially filled with heavier-than-water substances.

The individual compartment lids will sit on gasketed lips, with pre-drilled holes for watertightly securing them to the compartment. All these holes will be the same size, so that they'll use the same size fasteners. Fasteners and a manual tool to put them in place quickly will be stowed handy in case they are needed, so that completely closing off a compartment where water is coming in can be done with minimal fuss. At sea, the compartments will stay closed, partly fastened already - not too hard to access if needed, easy to secure against ingress. I can pull out several days worth of stores, to be stowed in an easy-access compartment, every few days/as needed - kind of like "reefing early".

[CapnK]

A few things to note -

After bulkhead of the wanter tank area was skewed somewhat (I haven't found anything built here that *isn't* skewed, though, so that's not unusual... ).

The tank was bone dry and appears in fine shape.

In the last pic, the 3 tank keys shown were all found *under* the tank.

The outline directions in the manual are good, tank came out with no problem. But it was not glassed in at all, just setting there.

I made the long cuts with a skilsaw, and finished the corners with a jigsaw. Plenty of room between the blades and the hull per the directions. Not a very long job at all.

It looks like if a tank were made integral to the hull in this same location, it would hold a lot more water.

More grey-colored inner hull is evident. With resin drips over it from when the plywood was tabbed in, so whatever this mystery color is, it was installed by Pearson, and has held up really well.

[ebb]

Sounds like you can use a little help
from Sidle and Grissom. Dr Robbins
with his kit of anatomy saws would
be mighty helpful too. My vic, and
some others in the past, have that
mysterious blue which remains quite
un ex plain ed

[CapnK]

The port-side dinette remains, is in use daily, and is quite the cats meow, and so has earned a keeper-spot in the final plan. It is sleep-able, but - a couple weeks experience have shown that it is rather nicer to have a horizontal pad which doesn't need setting up when the eyes get droopy.

This, with mulling over flotation equations, and fiddling with the interior, took me down other lanes of thought, so 'tis the v-berth where I have been sleeping, and will do so when not at sea.

I slept on 4" thick cushions on top of 11" high plastic storage bins placed in the v-berth area while I tried this theory out. Worked well, except the side-deck has too much proximity when one is lying on their, well, side. A few days ago I quicky-built in a berth at an 8" height, and that has proven much more comfy, so the entire v-berth area will be elevated approx. 8" above the original level when finished. Under the cushions will be lockers with gasketed, sealable lids. Going with the center pole for mast support.

Starboard side hanging locker is coming out, and the whole counter and cabinetry along there will be shifted forward into that space. One of the buggers which has been plaguing me is what to do with the space in the extreme aft corners of the settee area. Hard to get to, tucked under the side deck and forward cockpit seat corner. Have been planning on removing the under-companionway stairs and sink, opening that area up and as noted before in this too-long thread, using a ladder for access to/from deck. Another bugger has been the porta-potti, which I plan to keep in lieu of a head and the associated plumbing. So.... I'm going to try for a small enclosed head/hanging wet locker to starboard of the companionway, potti on a slide out-shelf. If they can do it in a Flicka...

Here's a drawing to help visualize some of this.

[CapnK]

Here's more-or-less where I'll be putting foam and sealed lockers in order to make this boat float in case the sea gets in. Blue lines represent 1" thick foam panels with luan plywood skins, skinned and tabbed in with glass to seal it all completely. Solid blue areas will be solid foam, glassed in. Anchor locker is getting split in two horizontally, the area where the rode will lie will be sealed off from the boats interior, and will drain directly overboard a la Geoff's "Uhuru" and Frank/Adam/Howards #50.

I'll be reducing the area where water can lie within the boat, nearly filling all bilge areas and sump with foam - my thinking is that if there is seawater aboard, I wanna know about it, and get it overboard. Also, less space for seawater means more space for floaty foam.

Same for under-bunk/locker areas; basically, wherever there is a V formed against the hull, I'll put a foam floor in to make the bottom level at least partly.

Also, I have been playing with 3" thick piece of test foam directly against the hull, seeing how much *usable* area I lose with that thickness. It ain't much. If I can go with 3" thick from the stringer down, all the way through the boat, that will give me 48cu/ft of the the estimated 55-60cu/ft needed to float the boat if she gets holed.

[mbd]

Nice Kurt! Looking forward to seeing the in-progress pictures. A lot to be learned from your well thought-out and tried ideas. Looking good! Rock on, my man!

[mrgnstrn]

Here's more-or-less where I'll be putting foam and sealed lockers in order to make this boat float in case the sea gets in.



Also, I have been playing with 3" thick piece of test foam directly against the hull, seeing how much *usable* area I lose with that thickness. It ain't much. If I can go with 3" thick from the stringer down, all the way through the boat, that will give me 48cu/ft of the the estimated 55-60cu/ft needed to float the boat if she gets holed.

Kurt, let me offer a different opinion on your flotation idea.

1. It will be a huge PIA to put foam in those places, especially sheet foam.

2. It will be expensive to put in that pour in place stuff.

3. It is unlikely that an Ariel will get holed in such a way that you will want to stay on the boat. Think about this: What scenario would have to happen for an Ariel to get holed? What is the max speed of an Ariel under any condition...5.5 knots or so? How thick is the hull... 3/4" or more? If your Ariel is taking enough of a bashing to get holed, you are likely not going to want to stay there for it. The only candidates in my mind are a lee-shore of jagged rocks, fast moving freighters in the middle of the ocean, and those 100-mph cigarrette boats with alcoholic-induced accidents/collisions. With jagged rocks, just go ashore. With a frieghter, it will tear the boat up in a million pieces, so the floatation will not be any use. With the drunks, take your chances, your are as more likely to be injured by the accident than to worry about your boat sinking.

3.a. If you already sealed off the anchor locker, that is going to be your most bang-for-your-buck. That is the most vulnerable part, the front. That is the part that runs into things like containers, other boats, bouys, etc.

4. Even if it does float after getting holed, why do you want to save the hull? All equipment will be emersed and likely trash: engine, electronics, personal effects, everything. Why do you want to save that stuff? And it's not as if the boat will float that high in the water, likely it will be like the containers we hear about, nearly nuetrally bouyant and floating with just inches exposed. It's not as if you can really use the boat in that condition.

5. A good 3-person life-raft is probably cheaper and less frustrating than any floatation-addition-project.

6. In a small boat, the space taken by the foam is going to be "expensive" in terms of usability. Better to install the air-bag-floatation things. They stay small until called upon.

7.Do many other long-distance ocean voyagers do this mod? I am thinking about the father-son duel that went around Cape Horn in the 80's in a 24-footer. They were from Connecticut if I recall, and built the boat themselves from a kit. Their book is really good and might give some ideas about what is needed for blue-water ocean passages.

---not raining on your parade, just giving you something to think about, and maybe save you some time so you can get to making passages sooner.---

[CapnK]

Ebb - you hit upon the very reason I have the counter edge set back in the drawing. The only thing about doing that (rotating the opening a bit from 90*), is that *if* the WC has a hard door, you'll lose knee room. Not much, but every bit will count. Still working on the door thing, but had thought of an accordion fold as the only realistic solution for a hard door. It worries me that it might be problematic eventually, though. That's where a curtain would work better. So... Still thinkin'.

Mike - Again, bingo. It would be nice to be able to have the area up top on that side wall open - which lends itself to a curtain, and a vertical metal tube from the top of the wall to the overhead which would make a dandy handhold. I probably will still do the retractable ladder under the bridgedeck - the steps below the shelf-like step are totally optional, and probably only ever put on if I found after some use that they would be nice to have.

No way would I move the companionway - that would be *way* too much work! It is that way in the original drawings, did you ever notice that? The B27 c'way is like that.