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Thread: The album of Ariel #422

  1. #226
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
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    Winyah Bay, SC
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    You could simulate an 'overall' picture on your boat, with a little work. First, distress the interior a bit. You know, remove some paint from random spots, take off cushion covers, cut out parts or all of various interior cabinetry work, and then scatter around a fair amount of what would seem to be junk. Afterwards, toss a hand grenade into the boat, and shut the companionway hatch.

    When the smoke clears, what you see would probably fairly well approximate an 'overall' picture of Katie's interior at the moment.

    I am saving *those* pictures until after the "prettying" is done.

    Re: white pine - it is soft (it is also light), and I will be glassing the interior of the various compartments. Prior to that, if the arrangement works like I think it should, I will be edge gluing all the butt joints with Gorilla Glue, as well as the face of the horizontal members to the verticals. Foam will be going up against the hull, topped with (probably) 1/4" ply and a layer of glass (might do just glass though). The compartment walls will be bonded to the hull, the foam will go around them.

    Unlike Brave Heart (I noticed that too), I am going to have a light colored interior. Also, I don't think the butt joins will be as noticeable. I wonder what wood they used...

    Re: aft head - it worked, and is eminently do-able (Go, Franky!) (No pun intended ), but I am not doing it. The head will be in the forward part of the boat, I have not decided just where or how or whether to stay with a porta potty or a bucket or a composting system of some kind. Pics of what I am going to try to do WRT the head will be up in a few days, I think. I first had to build in the area.

    Re: sleeping - having gone full circle and then some trying different arrangements , sleeping accommodations will be thus: big bed in the v-berth, convertible athwartships sea/company berth in the saloon. That's where I am bunking while working up front, although as you can see in the pic below, I can start sleeping forward to port tonight.

    Saloon will have the galley-stuff aft, and two small setees (just large enough to seat 2 folks who get along well side-by-side) between the 'galley' and drawers/cabinets which will be up against the main bulkhead, on it's after side (like the OEM drawers). These will convert to the athwartship single sea berth.

    I'll write up a comprehensive list of the myriad different ways I configured things belowdecks, along with what worked or didn't, how's and why's, and the reasoning behind why I have ultimately gone with this arrangement. I'll post here when that is done. It won't be getting finished quickly, though - the past 4 years have seen many changes and different arrangements, as you all can attest to from the partial list of same I have shown here from time to time.
    Attached Images    
    Kurt - Ariel #422 Katie Marie
    --------------------------------------------------
    sailFar.net
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  2. #227
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    Jul 2004
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    PS - Yes, I am still recycling old parts that were long since removed from their original locations. The plywood on top of the berth is just a temporary solution. Ultimately, there will be separate access to each individual compartment.
    Kurt - Ariel #422 Katie Marie
    --------------------------------------------------
    sailFar.net
    Small boats, long distances...

  3. #228
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Northern MN
    Posts
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    Revisiting the composite panel idea

    Captain K

    Your sandwich panels keep haunting me. Not in a bad way from your perspective, but in so much as I have this 'overweight' fear stemming from all of the baltic birch I used in my remodel. early on I hedged my bets for strength rather than weight. As time progressed and things continually evolve I sometimes fear the cumulative weight of all the built-ins will have a negative impact on trim, speed and carrying capacity of stores.

    So now I'm seriously considering how I should approach the 'revamping' of my remodel. I will be looking at where we can use some sandwich panels to lighten things up a bit. Because there are so few remaining bulkheads and dividers left to go in it will be a challenge. So in your spare time maybe you could peruse the photos of 113's interior and offer up some suggestions.

    But! I did manage to find some photos of panels made for use in Baltic Yachts. You know by now that I'm a picture kind of guy.
    Attached Images  
    Last edited by Tony G; 09-01-2009 at 11:46 AM.

  4. #229
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    Jul 2004
    Location
    Winyah Bay, SC
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    Katie's cheap (or free) under-companionway composting head

    Here are some pics of what I came up with for a cheap alternative to those overly-expensive composting heads. I have been using this for several weeks now, and have been very pleased with the result. Works great, and is dirt cheap (no pun intended ). More details @ a thread I started on sailFar to describe it.

    Tony - wow, that foam ply construct is just what I was thinking. I don't think I'll have time/money to implement it, but - great illustration, glad to know I'm not totally off base.

    Ebb - I'll follow this post up with more of my external chainplate stuff; I don't want to hijack TonyG's thread (more than we did already... ).
    Attached Images      
    Kurt - Ariel #422 Katie Marie
    --------------------------------------------------
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    Small boats, long distances...

  5. #230
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    Both the 5 gal bucket and the coffee can sit recessed about 5-6" into the sole under the sink; the bucket is actually resting on the hull, the can is sitting on the lip of the cabin sole which projects aft under the sink-area sole.

    The wooden structure surround is approx 15" square, 12" tall, there is 2' even of space above the seat.
    Kurt - Ariel #422 Katie Marie
    --------------------------------------------------
    sailFar.net
    Small boats, long distances...

  6. #231
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    Sep 2001
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    Northern MN
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    Just gotta let you know how much I applaud you for taking the first step in the DIY composter here. Initially it seems like you are stepping out onto a highwire but realistically how could it be any worse than a wet-head gone wrong? As a matter of fact once you get past the 'I fear poo factor' it seems striaght forward.

    There seems to be plenty of information on the web regarding DIY 'composting toilets' for land use. And they all tend to be larger and swankier than what is really practicle for our purpose. Even the 'off the grid' crowd seem to enjoy taking plenty of space.

    Hats off and a dropped trou to you!!

    P.s. I noticed the now idle porta-potie in one of your earlier photos. I wonder if they would make a suitable platform to build the top half of a composter without too much work.
    My home has a keel.

  7. #232
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Rafael, CA
    Posts
    3,549

    E=mc2

    5 gal pail, one funnel, one bottle.
    I also applaud your formula!
    Equal in its simplicity (and importance!) to the equation above!


    As to the cedar herreschoff bucket post on your websight,
    it does seem possible to line your boxframe inside with tennessee closet lining.
    Here's to many successful downloads.

  8. #233
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Winyah Bay, SC
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    Tony, I thought of adapting the porta potty seat in some way, but after mulling it over, decided to forget it as it would have been much more work, for a less comfortable seat.

    Re: those IP pics: Cool!!! Pics which show just what I was talking about with the IP chainplates...

    Here's my extra chainplate explanation:

    Ebb, everything in this pic is plastic and glass, no metals at all:
    Attachment 6706 (<--- also at bottom of this post, attached to Tony before)

    A bolt will come through the hole in the middle, from outside, that holds the chainplate. It'll have a big ol' washer or two on it, and a nut holding the whole assembly in place. The FRP thingamajigger is purely there to spread the load from that bolt coming thru the hull; to change it from a point load of vertical shear in one small location, by spreading the stress down and out onto a large area of the hull.

    There will likely be two 1/4" layers of solid FRP located on the inside of the hull at each chainplate, one layer against the hull basically the same size as the chainplate, and then a row of these tabular things bonded to that which will help the FRP rope grip against the shear via a wider radius than if it simply wrapped over a bolt.

    Put in the big piece against the hull, attach the smaller tabs, fair it all in with resin thickened w/colloidal so that the rope over the tabs has nice straight runs down onto the hull. Use that rope to spread the vertical shear stresses out over several square feet of hull surface, instead of just right there at the 'plates.

    Here's a visual attempt at explanation:

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    Do dat make mo sense?
    Attached Images  
    Last edited by epiphany; 06-06-2010 at 09:31 AM. Reason: made a oopsie
    Kurt - Ariel #422 Katie Marie
    --------------------------------------------------
    sailFar.net
    Small boats, long distances...

  9. #234
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Northern MN
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    Ahhhh. I can see clearly now my brain is gone....

    Dang, Kurt you keep raising the bar! I am confidently hoping that the laminating schedule I used when tabbing in the aft lower chainplate knees and the main bulkhead did add enough beef to keep the bolt shafts of the external chainplates from 'egging' the bolt holes in the hull. I put down stitched matting, fabric, matting, roving, topped with matting again. I added 1/4" - 3/8" to the hull via the tabbing. I really like your approach but I am not taking out the main bulkhead so half of the fibergalss 'rope' would have to make a 90 and spread onto the bulkhead (and aft CP knee if I didn't remove 'em)
    Does anyone here have any bad experiences with other boats and external chainplates?
    My home has a keel.

  10. #235
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Winyah Bay, SC
    Posts
    576

    Bling Bling

    Yee-ha! The tabernacle is finished...

    Below are some pics. As it stands now, it is ~18" tall, and 24" across the base (the base plate is 4" in the fore-aft dimension). I had it made to where I can put the pivot bolt as low as 14" (we'll see about that when I work with it some more). Most of the base will be under glass when I'm done mounting it, there will be no direct connection thru the deck to the strongback underneath, the whole area will be solid FRP(no core).

    I'd never intended to use it much as a tabernacle per se; the reasoning for it was that 1) I wanted to have a VERY secure connection of the mast base to the deck, and 2) to spread the transfer of compression loads onto the under-deck support structure across as large an area as possible.

    For reference, if you look back at the images of the internal/underdeck strongback structure, the diagonal arms of the tabernacle line up directly over the vertical supports of the strongback structure, and the tabernacle verticals fall just inside of the gussets between the horizontal beam of the strongback and the vertical supports of same.

    That said, with the extra-warm summer we are having and the prediction of an overactive tropical storm season, the ability to drop the mast in my slip and head upriver underneath the 29' vertical clearance bridge next to my marina might just come in handy when ('if at all, and let's hope not', I pray) a whirly-girl comes to visit...

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    Kurt - Ariel #422 Katie Marie
    --------------------------------------------------
    sailFar.net
    Small boats, long distances...

  11. #236
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    Here's the strongback, easier to see than looking back...

    Kurt - Ariel #422 Katie Marie
    --------------------------------------------------
    sailFar.net
    Small boats, long distances...

  12. #237
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    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Rafael, CA
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    Impressive tabernackle

    That's thinking outside the box if not the TUBE!
    Nice pattern tube - haven't seen it before.

    Couple things: you know it's dangerous to cover stainless with plastic,
    salt water will get in where you terminate the encapsulation.
    MAYBE cleaner install can be cap screwing - through the deck - into the tube strongback inside.
    Or even through bolting the tab, through the whole strongback tube using tube liners for the bolts as one does when thru bolting a mast - a avoid caving in the sides.
    Any future leaks will be a heads-up that maintenance is in order!

    The other thought is
    that when you see European tabernacles they often hinge the mast at the top of the
    tabernacle. This may allow AFT lowering visavis over your dodger to a boom gallows eg. Or if FORWARD lowering the mast won't be at a crazy angle visavis the the pulpit where it has to rest.

    I'd guess that the mast at an upward angle on the pulpit will create some strong leverage on the pulpit and at the bolt end as well.
    A lower angle of the mast when down will make unhinging the mast easier because the mast will be more level. Also reattaching the mast - as the mast's fulcrum is the pulpit - where the mast is 2/3s outboard - it's heavily weighted to falling further over the bow.

    With a tall tabernacle aft lowering is preferred I think,
    as more of the mast is inboard when lowering and when resting on a much more substantial gallows.

    Interesting to see what you come up with!
    Certainly not going to have any compression issues ever again!!!
    Good tabernakling !
    Last edited by ebb; 07-01-2010 at 09:03 AM.

  13. #238
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
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    722
    WOw!

    That is certainly a 'sporty' deck support. Like a compression post on steroids! I should think that if a bridge should come down on such a set up that you will have some liability for the repair of the bridge!

    How does that 'feel' below decks? I know you were going for the modern 'open' floor plan... that is a pretty significant piece of hardware, does it still leave the cabin feeling open?

    I really like the tabernacle. It is exactly what I was trying to describe, except I was picturing plates on the sides rather then the tube. I think yours is much stronger. I am sure that is what you were describing to me when I was there a couple weeks ago... I was just too dense to visualize it.

    What plans do you have to seal the top of the open tubes? I am sure the tube design is going to be much stronger then plates, but they would not likely stay that way if they were to collect water all the time (or is that the design, with a pipe going to the water tank?)

    Also, how do you intend to capture the mast 'shoe' at the bottom? Will it just sit on the plate, or is there some kind of receptacle that you picture?

    Finally (for some more unsolicited input)... I would suggest through bolting the tabernacle, and having it sit on a built up platform rather then encasing it in fiberglass... even the stainless is going to corrode if it is denied access to the air (and it's right to 'sluf off' electrons as it would will so as to maintain it's 'stainless-ness')....

    Beautiful work there Captain! I look forward to seeing it installed!


    s/v 'Faith'

    1964 Ariel #226
    Link to our travels on Sailfar.net

  14. #239
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Winyah Bay, SC
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    576
    Ahoy dere, Ebb -

    Thanks for letting me see what to clarify!

    The tabernacle material is aluminum (the type used in making those really tall tuna towers for sport fisherman), and tho' I didn't make it clear, the hinge/pivot will be above the diagonals, somewhere between 14-18" off the deck, and I intend for the mast to lower towards the stern.

    That's the reason for the height - eventually Katie will sport some kind of dodger, so I was going for as much clearance as possible while hoping to keep it looking no too ungainly.
    Kurt - Ariel #422 Katie Marie
    --------------------------------------------------
    sailFar.net
    Small boats, long distances...

  15. #240
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    Jul 2004
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    Winyah Bay, SC
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    Craig -

    She feels plenty open - the pic might be misleading in its blurriness and perspective... The tubing for the strongback is 2" thickwall AL, the plate material is 1/4" thick.

    Gonna seal the tubes somehow, haven't figgered that all the way out. Would like the caps removable, and also plan some tiny drain holes at bottom of the tubes...

    All of this is aluminum, with the possible exception of the thru-bolts (and if I can use Al there, I will...). I want no galvanization if at all possible between the tabernacle and the mast. WRT strength of Al for this component, the tabernacle is built of hefty-enough tubing that it weighs about 7-8 pounds (scientifically tested by lifting it, then a 10# barbell to compare ).

    Mast foot/shoe fitting - Still in the planning stage, likely to be built of composite to a tight fit. Gotta let the brain churn on it for a few days, now that I have tabernacle in-hand to see what exactly I am dealing with.
    Kurt - Ariel #422 Katie Marie
    --------------------------------------------------
    sailFar.net
    Small boats, long distances...

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