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Thread: The album of Ariel #422

  1. #166
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
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    Winyah Bay, SC
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    579
    I've been wanting to try stripping the old original latex paint from the hull and overhead prior to grinding - seeking less noise, less mess, maybe even less effort. Bought a product called "Citristrip" from WalMart, $10.77 for a quart of orange colored paste. It is "Safe for indoor use, no harsh fumes, strips multiple layers", is non-caustic (tho' they do recommend using gloves with it), and is supposedly biodegradable. Sounds safe for a liveaboard, right?

    Well, it works - and good. Put a layer on a test area, waited 30-40 minutes, and the paint came off very easily. Further testing has shown that scraping, then using a plastic scrubby brush, finishing with a water-wetted rag removes the old paint pretty darn easily. It's not *all* gone, but now sanding to a good substrate should take a lot less time, with the other benefits of less grinding.

    Still working on application. I tried a foam brush, but that melted - not immediately, but fairly quick, surprisingly for what would otherwise seem to be a benign substance. I think a cheap china bristle brush would work well, maybe even a homemade thing plastic squeegy, for quickly covering large areas. 1/8" thickness of wet paste seems to produce the best results. If it gets too dry before scraping, just put a little more paste on and wait a few minutes, it'll soften right back up.

    I think as soon as it gets back up into the 60's on a regular basis, I am going to move me, dogs, and most stuff off of the boat for a week or two, during which time I will get down and dirty laying in the new arrangement. I am doing up some computer drawings of what I have been thinking, sort of a visual plan and perspective view. I'll post those when I get them done.

    Still trying to figure out what is the best adhesive for bonding the foam to the hull. Based on how well the paint has gripped the glass for 40 years, I may well use a latex adhesive, if I can find one which will grab the foam as well. I could use 42/5200, but am hoping to find something which won't grip *quite* that much. Ideal would be something which expanded just a teensy bit, to fill in gaps where condensation could form. The search continues...

    I can't wait to get her sailing again...
    Kurt - Ariel #422 Katie Marie
    --------------------------------------------------
    sailFar.net
    Small boats, long distances...

  2. #167
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    Jul 2004
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    A look at what the WC will be like. Though the opening into it looks tiny, it is 14-16" wide. I'm not sure how I am going to handle a door. Note the 'flare' in the wall at the bottom of the companionway - it'll be 5" wide or so, allows for more shoulder room inside the WC space when seated, and gives an easy-to-reach high step for when a hatchboard is in place in the companionway...
    Attached Images  
    Kurt - Ariel #422 Katie Marie
    --------------------------------------------------
    sailFar.net
    Small boats, long distances...

  3. #168
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    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Rafael, CA
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    3,549

    head room

    Fantastic Kurt, Brave man!
    Getting the head out of the v-berth is downright heroic!
    Perfect for the wet gear, too. But, do you NEED a door? How bout just a curtain or an accordian door that folds and hangs from a bar.

    What happens if you turn the doorway into the cabin a bit - a little or a lot??? Know what I mean? You might set the galley sink an inch or two further outboard and use vertical space gained to turn the doorway off the 90 degrees? Trying to be helpful, ya know.
    Last edited by ebb; 02-19-2007 at 04:46 PM.

  4. #169
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    Scarborough, Maine
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    Companionway steps on the wall of the head? Nice outside the box thinking. So, no more removable steps? Which way is the head going to be oriented? Excepting the steps on the WC wall, maybe a curtain could be used there as well? Might not be a bad thing to be able to vent out the companionway...

    While you're redoing things, maybe you could move the companionway entry off center to make more room for the head? That's semi tongue-in-cheek, but it would make more room... I love following the progress of you guys who actually get things done on your boats.
    Last edited by mbd; 02-19-2007 at 05:47 PM.
    Mike
    Totoro (Sea Sprite 23 #626)

  5. #170
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    Ebb - you hit upon the very reason I have the counter edge set back in the drawing. The only thing about doing that (rotating the opening a bit from 90*), is that *if* the WC has a hard door, you'll lose knee room. Not much, but every bit will count. Still working on the door thing, but had thought of an accordion fold as the only realistic solution for a hard door. It worries me that it might be problematic eventually, though. That's where a curtain would work better. So... Still thinkin'.

    Mike - Again, bingo. It would be nice to be able to have the area up top on that side wall open - which lends itself to a curtain, and a vertical metal tube from the top of the wall to the overhead which would make a dandy handhold. I probably will still do the retractable ladder under the bridgedeck - the steps below the shelf-like step are totally optional, and probably only ever put on if I found after some use that they would be nice to have.

    No way would I move the companionway - that would be *way* too much work! It is that way in the original drawings, did you ever notice that? The B27 c'way is like that.
    Kurt - Ariel #422 Katie Marie
    --------------------------------------------------
    sailFar.net
    Small boats, long distances...

  6. #171
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    Quick edit to take out the upper wall portions...
    Attached Images  
    Kurt - Ariel #422 Katie Marie
    --------------------------------------------------
    sailFar.net
    Small boats, long distances...

  7. #172
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    Jan 2004
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    Dangit Kurt! Now you've got me daydreaming instead of working again! I was going to comment on "cutting" your large deadlight in half with a bulkhead and the potential maintenance issues should you ever have to remove said deadlight - then you posted the second drawing. So I won't point that out, although I guess I just did.

    So, in thinking of your aft head location, I got to thinking of a couple of other layouts with the same, like the Flicka and the closely related Allegra 24. (I just added a pic of its enclosed head) Same beam, BTW. Both have nice and open v-berths and an enclosed head.

    So I say, how about bring that bulkhead forward to between the deadlights? It takes up more space, but any "extra" could certainly be used for wet storage, like up under the cockpit. The extra bit of room just may make the head a little more welcoming and a place you could sit and read a good book, or, heaven forbid, get rid of some bad fish... Just a thought.
    Mike
    Totoro (Sea Sprite 23 #626)

  8. #173
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    Sep 2001
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    Kurt,
    Now THAT'S a great idea - opening up the top. Keeps spaciousness, disapates odors. Could soft screen the top, along with the doorway - and it solves the bulkhead over the deadlite issue. If it is an issue: I've seen this work in pics of other boats if the bulkhead is NOT made an issue. If it is designed so that the critical eye sees the solution as, say, providing light to an 'enclosed' space and also providing an open feeling to the accomadation, then there is nothing 'wrong' with it. If the bulkhead was structural, it couldn't work. But as 'furniture', if it can be called that, it's fine!

    Another thought: If you step the foreandaft companionway bulkhead (instead of adding cleats and steps to a sheer surface) you could created more room inside the head. Especially knee-room! What I mean is that you could make one side of the comp. ladder with a wall that is stepped out with ledges that are actually space makers inside the head. Maybe just one step could be done that way with the wall. NO?

  9. #174
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    Lovin' the input, fellas - you're making me think.

    Mike - Moving the forward wall up to the spot 'tween deadlights would give more space, but at the same time it'd take away from galley counter/drawer space (and sealed locker/potential floaty space, too). Dang those compromises! For someone my size or smaller, there is enough knee-room in that dimension. I'll measure it and post the #'s eventually. Due to our wineglass-shaped hulls, what it lacks is flat floor space, one low enough to provide some headroom when standing. Still fiddling with this to optimize what space I do have...

    AFA this interfering with deadlight mounting/maintenance: I'm planning on doing something like I think Tony is doing with his deadlights, re-making them so that Lexan mounts into an external recess built into the cabin trunk, fastened from the outside. (Don't expect my work to look nearly as good as Tony's does when it comes to that stage, though. ) So far my rough plan is to mount structure on the inside that will enable me to enlarge to deadlight opening to the same outline shape as the current, original frames. By doing that, when viewed from outside the Lexan will have the same overall proportions as the original deadlights w/frames. In this, I will be preserving the original look, while making for a much more substantial and seaworthy mount. Do dat make sense?

    Ebb - the 'sideways steps' idea is good, but it my case would encroach on the access to the forward part of the under-cockpit-sole area, which I do plan to have easily accessible for stowage (tho' I am not sure exactly how, just yet...). Still, you may have given me the genesis of an idea to increase that flat floor space, by rotating the direction of the porta potti to athwartships instead of fore-and-aft. Hmm...
    Kurt - Ariel #422 Katie Marie
    --------------------------------------------------
    sailFar.net
    Small boats, long distances...

  10. #175
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    Is it too 'unmanly' to force sitting down when using the head? You could set it up like your dinette, so there's a step up to the business part of the head - throne-like, you might say. Then you could see out the dead light while taking care of business if you were so inclined. You might be able to recoup some of that storage under the head. On second thought, maybe you don't want anything under the head except a holding tank.

    That would leave the after area accessible for storage or a hanging locker as well as the area under the deadlight against the hull...
    Last edited by mbd; 02-23-2007 at 11:25 AM.
    Mike
    Totoro (Sea Sprite 23 #626)

  11. #176
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    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Rafael, CA
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    throne room

    Fore-n-aft or a-thwart-ship is an endless controversy.
    Which ever way in an Ariel - you'll have to brace yourself.

    Whether you are an inboard or an outboard, hard dinghy
    or soft dinghy, aft facing or side facing kind of skipper -
    in the Ariel it'll be a real compromise. I believe I can brace
    myself better with my arms rather than the back of my head
    and my knees. But each to his own.

    As has been said about the portopotti: "Truth lies in a well and we
    may justly say that logic does supply us with steps,
    whereby we may go down to reach the water." Dr. I. Watts

    And remember it was Boris Pasternak who observed,
    "What is laid down, ordered, factual is never enough to embrace
    the whole truth: life always spills over the rim of every cup."

    Whatever you do, remember to fillet your corners.
    Last edited by ebb; 02-23-2007 at 06:27 AM.

  12. #177
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    Jul 2004
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    Winyah Bay, SC
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    Mike - I have seen it recommended that to keep head odors down, *everyone* should sit down when using the head aboard a boat, whatever they are doing. Makes sense, because it ensures that all 'materials' wind up where they are supposed to be, with no inadvertent 'spillage'.

    I originally had the PP sitting a bit higher, but found that unwieldy - it's too hard to pull pants down/up (or do, erm, anything else...) when you are scrunched over, half-crouched. Headroom in the head is a necessary component.

    I think I am establishing the guidelines for "recommended minimum head dimensions".

    As you pointed out, there is good storage space both behind the PP, as well as under the sidedecks. I think that this will be a most convenient place for storage of tools and maintenance/cleaning supplies - a good utility room.

    Ebb - Aye, everything is indeed a compromise. It'll be snug in my WC, so easy bracing won't be a problem. It might even serve as a good resting spot, for that exact reason.

    Yesterday:

    I pulled out my v-bunk and remade it approx. 3" lower. The top of the boards (not including the cushion) are 7" above the original vberth height. Before, I had it up at 10", but that was too high. To climb in was a big step up from the sole (I actually put a step on the bulkhead for that reason), and then when in the bunk, there was not enough height for anything other than a scrunched-over turnaround to get into a lying-down position. Dropping the height 3" made a big difference, both in access and comfort. It's funny what a difference a few inches make, here and there...

    I mounted two vertical posts to 'frame' in the doorway of the WC, like in the 2nd pic above - a full-size trial version of that setup. Works great, and I tested another idea I'd had, too: Instead of curtains for the small areas at the top of the walls, have pieces of wood there, hinged to fold up/down, one on each wall. Up for privacy when the head is in use, down they'd lie flat, to act as counter space and keep the 'openness' of the cabin. The sizes needed for them to lay flat when down (and not strike against the cabin trunk side) would leave a small 3"-ish gap at the top when up, for ventilation. Don't know if I will wind up using this or not, but it is a possibility...

    I'll also be dropping my dinette seat height 4-6". At the present height (same as the original counter height), my shoulder rests against the cabin trunk side, just below the deadlight. Dropping the seat a few inches will make for more shoulder room, more comfort, and I'll still be able to see out the deadlight when seated. Still planning to have it convertible for bunk space, too.

    Last, after months of deliberation, I've decided to go with a 2-pole mast support. The poles will sit at the same approximate location as the original oak supports, will be mechanically joined to each other at the top, and will sit in a recess designed into the cross-cabin support beam. I will most likely be using steel as the material, which I don't see as optimal because it can corrode, but I think that if I take the proper steps before mounting it, it will not be an insurmountable problem - I plan to treat them the same way a steel hull is treated. I think that that will be sufficient for the purpose, with enough of an 'overkill' factor to please that part of me which enjoys the thought of something being at least a bit better than it needs to be.
    Kurt - Ariel #422 Katie Marie
    --------------------------------------------------
    sailFar.net
    Small boats, long distances...

  13. #178
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    Jul 2004
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    Winyah Bay, SC
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    Got all that done, and then got sick. Tonsillitis and then a lil bout o quinsy - blech. Finally felt well enough this weekend to get back on my feet and give the boat a early spring cleaning. Ready for the warmth to get here, ready to commence the tear down...
    Kurt - Ariel #422 Katie Marie
    --------------------------------------------------
    sailFar.net
    Small boats, long distances...

  14. #179
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    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Rafael, CA
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    Kurt, Hope yer better!
    Interim photos would be most instructive.

  15. #180
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    Jul 2004
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    Winyah Bay, SC
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    I'll take lots o' shots, Ebb, that's for sure. Just received confirmation this AM of dates on a commissioning job w/extras (brand new Catalina 320 headed for Bermuda), that'll start March 16 +/-. It'll involve a solid week of boatwork at the yard, so I'll plan on starting the destruction/reconstruction on Katie to begin just after that, while I am still in the mode, and without having to give all my tools a complete cleansing inbetween...
    Kurt - Ariel #422 Katie Marie
    --------------------------------------------------
    sailFar.net
    Small boats, long distances...

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