The album of Ariel #422

[CapnK]

Ebb -

I'll be digesting the rest of your post, but that pic is of *your* bulkhead. I copied the picture from #338's Gallery pages, then I used the GIMP to "cut away" areas of the upper, outer parts of it (I pasted in the hull using parts of your hull from up in the forepeak). I wanted to see what it would look like, and thought you might want to see it too...

[ebb]

Amazing and scary too. Like some gimp cut and pasting me out of the big picture - brrr r r, very sci-fi. But what a great tool it is that allows you to paint an interior - like the Ariel's - move things around til just right, and then get measurements. Put those measurements in another program and have a machine cut the parts, put em ina box, and fed-ex right to the boat! Done!

Until somebody interjects here pointing out some glaring fault (besides Carl A. looking paler than usual), the arch beam certianly seems like the perfect space opener. If only I'd had a gimp of my own back then! And the presense of mind.

The best way is to start empty, with just the bulkhead, make patterns, glue up two arches flat in the shop, one for either side of the existing bulkhead. Bolt and glue in place, cut out all the middle. With the bulkhead pieces filling out the spaces to the cabin sides and to the hull - I think you'd end up with an wide open space to play with (in) and an even stronger support for the mast compression, as well as the compression forces of the chainplates. Like Bingham's quantum leap.

You might stabilize the liner on the cabin side by drilling holes in it where the arch will bear and inject the space inside with epoxy and cabosil. Easy.

I'd play with the gimp now if I could. I'd see how the forward double bunk idea would work with the new arch and still allow the head easy access. Or not. (338 has a bulkhead now where the cross piece was in the original V-berth layput - keeps the anchors, ground tackle and warps separate from the accomadation - but it brings the bed WAY out into the cabin). If all sleeping by a couple could be up forward there as one single while under way, and one double while parked, it would be hard not to go for it. It would permanently free up at least half the cabin, The table could still be used and the galley. As for the head, a midget potti could be made available in the cabin or out in the cockpit.


Add that the hatch right over head is a clincher for this arrangement.
Another is that as a single, sleeping with head forward or head aft is an option too.

[CapnK]

Ebb - Now I have even more of your posts to think about. I'll leave you with this non-scary, no scifi GIMP drawing of the slideout dinette, while I go think about your ideas...

Mike - It's not athwartships, but I haven't ruled that one out yet.

[mbd]

Kurt, your GIMPiness is the coolest! One of these long cold winter evenings I'm going to do some GIMPing of my own. What a great way to preview your mods.

I think you're on to something with the pull-out idea. Kind of taking a pull-out chart table to the next step.

After reading you and ole Ebb go at it though, I must confess that I'm a little relieved that the stock setup mostly works for my clan. (Wife and 2 kids) Each of the kiddos have picked out their "beds". Hopefully, next summer we'll do our first overnighter. But this is your thread...

A couple of thoughts:
What if you had the cabin steps to the right instead of the left, so it would be a straight shot to the v-berth when the pullouts were deployed - or move the pull outs and storage to port...

I like the open feel down below as well, but it seems by removing bulkhead walls, you're also removing valuable surface area which could be used for cabinet/shelf/storage space. Fine, even desirable for us weekender/daysailors, but you long term guys might need every little crevice and surface you can eek out.

Lastly, I love dinettes, but Ebb has got me thinking for your purposes (long range cruisers) a pilot berth that could be converted to a double at anchor definitely has its merits.

[ebb]

Kurt.
Do I see two sinks in yer gimp - a round and rectangle?

Mike,
I'm all for the original layout. As conceived it's great for weekending and a fabulous boat for getting the young out sailing. It's a mystery why, nearing the other end, some want to leave their cozy apartments and TVs to go wander away into the jaws of the dragon. Stir crazy to star crazy!

The original bulkhead is a post and beam with two side struts providing triangulation to support the beam and spread the load of the mast.

It turns out, after spending some late nite on the net, that the arch and beam is as old and venerable as the post and beam. Some owners have to rebuild the compression bulkhead because of rot and shrinkage. I now believe that the beam in conjunction with an arch is the strongest structure you can have supporting the mast. It could be a much lighter structure than what I have ended up with in my rebuild. That bulkhead under the mast has one purpose and that is to support the deck stepped mast. If it can be done better, then it probably should. And if it opens up the accomodation, that's way cool imco.

For instance, the beam could be an I-beam or truss (instead of a heavy white oak lam as 338 has now) The remaining pieces of ply bulkhead (spandrels) could be 1/2" or 3/8". The arch would still anchor at the V-berth bulkhead, with the load taken up by the hull well tabbed to the remaining bulkhead. The plywood under the deck would remain for locker sides (and equally strange thru deck upper shroudplates.) The forward stateroom could now be partitioned with any material soft or hard. Any furniture would be self supporting and could be designed to ignore the arch/beam. I'll leave it alone now.

[mbd]

Ebb, I believe Capt'n K. indicated the circle was for the stove. Another nice idea, BTW, the vent the heat.

How about a simple support post for the mast ala the Commanders? Do away with the bulkhead entirely and have the entrance to the v-berth to one side and a bulkhead to the other?

On another note: imagine Steve's Sirocco mini-settee as a pull out convertable athwartship bunk. Seems like it'd be cozy. Without the wet locker there, it could be a double easily - perhaps not long enought for the likes of Ebb, however. Still room aft for galley, pilot berth, and stowage. Man, did Steve do a nice job on his boat!

[CapnK]

Fellas -

This is great - thanks for the ideas and input, there is much to ponder and it is all helping me as I decide on where to go.

Wanted to post this one quick-like. This is where I am heading with the area under the bridgedeck. Lots of people poo-poo the Ariel hanging locker, and though I use it just fine, I understand why - it is small. Still, I see a need for a place to hang sodden, dripping foulies. Having to take them thru the cabin to hang up doesn't seem like much of a good idea. Another thing which has niggled at me has been that big area under the cockpit floor. It begs for stowage, but is not a good spot when one is trying to avoid stern squatting - anything stowed there must be lightweight. Access to the area is a little difficult, also - pulling out the steps, there is still a pretty narrow area for access. So I came up with this compromise. Removing the sink and cabinetry in the under-bridgedeck area will make access to the under-cockpit area much better, and having some hooks or a bar mounted up under the bridgedeck, next to the collapsible ladder would make for a good foulie hanging/draining spot (it's right over the bilge sump, too).

Second pic is "ladder in the up position" - I thought maybe the first pic might be confusing visually.

[ebb]

Kurt,
As Bill might say, why not put a nice little Beta back there!