Headsails

[Ed Ekers]

Mike, A comment to your original question about sails larger than 150. For a number of years the #75 Ariel raced with a 180 jib. We would carry a 155. What we found was that if there was a long weather leg we would often climb to weather on him gaining distance. We would not see much difference in speed. Where the 75 would eat us up was on a reach that was too tight for a spinnaker. The skipper on the 75 would move the fair lead forward to close off the top of his jib and would go reaching right by us. I would guess he would carry at least an extra .5 – 1 knot of speed on a reach with that 180. Our goal was always try to climb to weather by pointing close hauled and wait and see how long we might be able to hold him off.

One point if anyone out there is a racer and wants to use a sail larger than 155%. Most governing bodies will ding you 3 – 6 seconds a mile on your rating for using a jib larger the 155% .

[Bill]

Here is the track location for the 155% on #76. The block is placed where the sail on our boat seems to perform best.

[Bill]

And, here is the location of the track for the 110% jib. We seem to use just the aftermost three holes -- go aft as the wind builds.

[Mike Goodwin]

If you look at the 'fact sheet' from the website header, look at the sail diagram and you see a large genny outlined that comes aft of the house by nearly a foot. It is sheeted to a posistion on the track about where my winches are located. Is that a 180? In these parts that might move the boat in the summer.

Jealous Chesbay Sailor

[willie]

Bill, went out with the small jib--i'd call mine about a 100%, as it doesn't overlap much, and has a pretty high clew.I routed the sheets between fwd. shroud and upper shroud, and it worked great! The block was set about the same spot as in your photo, but inboard more, next to cabin trunk. Interesting how the angle stays about the same with it sheeted in tight or out. Must have it lead about right. I took some pictures, but left camera on the boat! I know there is so much more to all this, like sail shape? Twist n the sail? I'm happy when the tell tales start going horizontal!

So what do i do about leach flutter now? lol From my perspective in the cockpit it seemed that the angle was pulling down more than out, which should be good for the leach flutter wouldn't it? Maybe the old thing is just pretty stretched out.
I'd like to do some sailing/racing sometime with some REAL sailors!

Maybe we should start a sailing lesson thread? Something like "How to sail your Ariel?" I know, it's been covered, do a search! lol

[ebb]

Yes, yes, yes.
Now let's have in the first chapter a layout,
A DRAWING OF THE WHOLE BOAT DECK
with all the pertinent positions of all jib's and genny clews

Start with factory,
Move to remedials, upgrades.
Go to what is current and optimum.
Type and size of track. Mounting options.
Rigging and blocks.
Sheets, sizes, camlocks, etc.
Best position, angle off coaming, and size winches.
Pictures,
Diagrams.
Advice from the experts.
Pictures of experts winning races.
Pictures of foredeck crew in proper uniform.

Leads on headsails,
New, recutting, recycle.
Dacron, new fabric.
Furling, reefing.

Bagging, Proper folding. Stowage.
In short, Everything!

[willie]

Especially the foredeck crew in proper uniform! Think you about covered it Ebb!

My small crew from yesterday, ages 8,9,and 10, informed me we needed a jolly roger. So just ordered one. They insisted on the 3x5 model. Now i have to figure out how to fly the dang thing while they're onboard! Thinking the topping lift might work. This ought to be a sight going down the Columbia!

On a more serious note, my older daughter asks me "Dad, what would happen if you fell overboard?" To set the scene, it's just me and the 3 girls. Water is maybe 50 degrees now. They have no idea how to sail the boat, (well, they like to steer her a bit, but that's about it at this point) how to use the vhf, or even the cell phone most likely, in an emergency. So we talked. And did some teaching. Don't really know what would happen, but it wouldn't be good.I was glad to get home safe and sound. Nobody fell in. But for some reason, it worried me the whole time we were out. Maybe it was just knowing you wouldn't be able to do much after 10 or 15 min. in the water.Don't know if i could make it back aboard if i was able to get to the boat. I've been in the water for about an hour when it's that cold, and it's no fun. You get to a point where you can't even think, let alone do anything but shiver. And shiver. Anyway,
I think the best solution would be to have mom along next time. She knows how to sail, at least good enough maybe she'd run me over on the way back to get me! Short of that, we all wear lifejackets of course, don't go fwd. unless absolutely necessary, and then just me, and just be very very careful.
The thought of them alone out there on the boat, or watching them hit the rocks is pretty sobering. Maybe the best thing would be to have them drop the sails and release sheets, throw the life ring, put boarding ladder over the side, and call for help. Don't really know if the vhf would do much, think the cell and 911 would be better. I do know we have a busy summer ahead teaching them to handle the boat.

[ebb]

Y'know Bill,
It's not going to be long befor all your young crew will know how to sail.
But if you fell in, now by golly, what would you like to happen on the boat?

Maybe show them how to depower the sailboat
so at least you might swim back to it? Then what - but that's something else.

Coming about or tacking maybe not, but how about jibing? Could they untangle the lifering?

Something that doesn't require strength, but will alter the boat's speed or direction. Considering there could be novice guests aboard instead of the kidds what would you tell them to do? Have to be something simple. And natural.

I think this is a really important question!

Not talking about a fullfledged man overboard drill.

[Vines]

We race Commander #229 on a lake in Texas. All we have is the 155 Genoa with the jib track on the toerail. We hold our own on all the runs and reaches but when we have to point most everybody passes us. I need some tips on getting this boat to point higher. I have considered a 110 with the track inboard like the picture above. Would I lose too much speed with the smaller sail or would it increase my pointing ability to more than make up for that?

[commanderpete]

Pray for wind.

A fin keel boat will point higher than one with a modified full keel. This makes it tough on windward/leeward courses which often have no reaching leg at all.

The 110 sail will give you better VMG above a certain wind speed. But, you don't want to be under-canvassed

The boat likes good wind and can carry alot of sail. The boat will do best to windward in strong winds when the other boats have to sail fat because of chop and you can power through with momentum.

Some things to try:

Get clear air at the start. You will get rolled by faster boats and dirty air is deadly. Tack away early if necessary. Sail your own race.

Keep tacks to a minimum since it may take longer to get back up to speed. Overstand the mark a little. Coming out of a tack build up speed before sheeting all the way in. The faster you go, the faster the wind and the higher you can point.

Beating to windward is all about the helmsman. There is a very narrow groove between pinching and being overtrimmed, which changes with every lift and header. Consider getting a tiller extension so you can sit forward enough to read the telltales.

You need enough halyard/luff tension going upwind. Leech cupping or fluttering is also bad.

You want as little rudder deflection as possible. Consider reefing even if noone else is reefed to reduce weather helm. Reefing also helps to flatten an otherwise baggy mainsail.

The problem with the cabintop jib tracks on the Commander is getting a good lead to the primary winches. A track on the deck is going to have a similar problem getting the sheet around the coaming. I've been thinking about doing it, although I have a furling genoa.

Lots of factors go into windward performance. But, the bottom line is that you won't point as high as most other boats and you'll go slow trying.

[c_amos]

What an excellent post! Commander Pete just distilled most of what I learned in the couple seasons of racing Faith into one post...

Pray for wind.

When the race comittee is considering canceling the race for 'conditions' you are going to do well. The A/C really shows her stuff when it blows hard... kinda fun watching the light fin keel boats getting blown all over the place while you are under control and tracking streight....

A fin keel boat will point higher than one with a modified full keel. This makes it tough on windward/leeward courses which often have no reaching leg at all.

The 110 sail will give you better VMG above a certain wind speed. But, you don't want to be under-canvassed

The boat likes good wind and can carry alot of sail. The boat will do best to windward in strong winds when the other boats have to sail fat because of chop and you can power through with momentum.

Some things to try:

Get clear air at the start. You will get rolled by faster boats and dirty air is deadly. Tack away early if necessary. Sail your own race.

Keep tacks to a minimum since it may take longer to get back up to speed. Overstand the mark a little. Coming out of a tack build up speed before sheeting all the way in. The faster you go, the faster the wind and the higher you can point.

Beating to windward is all about the helmsman. There is a very narrow groove between pinching and being overtrimmed, which changes with every lift and header. Consider getting a tiller extension so you can sit forward enough to read the telltales.

You need enough halyard/luff tension going upwind. Leech cupping or fluttering is also bad.

You want as little rudder deflection as possible. Consider reefing even if noone else is reefed to reduce weather helm. Reefing also helps to flatten an otherwise baggy mainsail.

Printing this out, and reviewing it on the water would be worthwhile IMHO.

The problem with the cabintop jib tracks on the Commander is getting a good lead to the primary winches. A track on the deck is going to have a similar problem getting the sheet around the coaming. I've been thinking about doing it, although I have a furling genoa.

Lots of factors go into windward performance. But, the bottom line is that you won't point as high as most other boats and you'll go slow trying.

I have been tricked into trying to point with the other boats, and always came up wanting. One helpful bit of advice I got was to get the boat going as fast as I could, that the best VMG was had when I was as close to hull speed as I could get.... when I followed that advice I did better. It felt weird to be so far away from the 'pack' at first, but I really saw a difference in my overall times.

The full batten main helped the boat point higher, but that probably had much to do with the age of the old main.