Headsails

[Ed Ekers]

I need some tips on getting this boat to point higher

Don't know what your wind conditions are, but you might want to try adjusting the tension on your jib halyard. This should change the angle on the entrance to the wind and might let you sail a bit higher.

[Hull376]

So here's an interesting boat performance issue. A friend of mine sent me a furling J/24 Jib as he is racing his boat and only uses hank on headsail. I haven't used it--- my standard headsail is a furling 155%. My Ariel working jib is shot and it needs to be replaced. But how would it perform with the aspect ratio of the J/24? The Ariel jib is 115 sq ft, the J/24 is about 120 sq ft. Ariel Luff-26.6, Foot-10' 4", Leach 25'. J/24 Luff 22.3, Foot 12' 10", Leach- 19'. See the comparison in the plot below (Keith, what a handy tool!). Ariel = Light Blue, J/24= Red.

What happens to performance versus the standard Ariel jib? One who gets the best prediction before I try it out wins a......errr...... nothing!

[Ed Ekers]

We had a jib that was similar to the J cut. We tried it out in one design racing on the SF Bay our first year. What we found was that we had too much sail up high. In our wind conditions (20+knts) a lower cut sail would always out perform a high clew sail. You could sail faster and higher with what was termed a “deck sweeper”. I believe the reason was a high clew sail would cause the boat to heel more. Under the right conditions I think the higher cut sail would do well (more wind up high).

If you try it out I would be interested to hear what you think.

[ebb]

I'll take what Ed says about sailing as the god's own truth. Everyskipper wants his boat to sail as fast and efficiently as possible. If deck sweepers are more efficient and speedy sails then I'm listening. Soon Little Gull will have to get her new suit of sails.

Mainly, the reason for high clew staysails is for vision forward, right?. Especially shorthanded, the ability to see where you're going is comforting.


Is it possible to 'scandalize' a staysail by reefing the clew? That is, reducing the decksweeping action of the sail by folding or rolling the sail UP to a higher clew point?

And conversely, after leaving crowded waters, the clew could be shaken out and the sail returned to its more effective shape.

Has this been done? Does the sail need to be cut differently, or can this actually be done casually? Be nice to have the option.

[Bill]

Is it possible to 'scandalize' a staysail by reefing the clew? That is, reducing the decksweeping action of the sail by folding or rolling the sail UP to a higher clew point

Why not just a large window?

[Ed Ekers]

I have to say ebb some times your come up with some “very” different ideas. I suppose you can trim a sail any way you want to. I mean there are people sailing around today being pulled by kites. Efficient - who knows? Fun – Hell Yea!

I have not seen anyone reef a jib as you described. Given the sheet angle I don’t know if the deck is long enough to trim the sail. Throw in a long pendant for the tack and you have one more thing that is going to get fouled (Murphy). But what the heck lets try it.

All that said, I don’t want to leave the impression that a high clew sail is less efficient. It is just not the sail I want to use under normal SF conditions. But with wind under 20 and a little calmer water, than our bay during an ebb, the high clew sail is very versatile in my opinion. High clew gives you options that a sweeper doesn’t.

And thank you for the vote of confidence………ed

[ebb]

Thanks for entertaining the novice, guys.
Can see, by simply looking at Keith's diagram that the larger the sail the lower the clew - because it is a simple matter of running out of deck for proper sheeting. Really would be clewless for longfoot sails.

Our 'working jib' seems to be the best all round foresail of the regular low tack sails. With a 110 coming in as a close second. (the 110 is not diagramed on the visual, but I would assume a slightly lower clew.) Correct?

Light air sails, which are the big ones, are not working per se but are speed sails. Not exactly, I can see that a NO.1 would be very useful for getting a boat back home in failing wind. Keeping the boat at "running man" speed at all times is what the foresail selection is about.

It is possible that the light air NO. 1, NO. 2 and Drifter COULD have a reef along the bottom of the sail much like the main. In effect shortening the sail considerably. They could then be raised or lowered with the halyard for positioning. Of course that is probably a useless exercise.

[We did have a lively 76 post 'Roller Furler' discussion in the past. I don't mean to bring that up again]
Non racing A/C's would more than likely have a furler. (High tack, and perhaps this is why you don't race with furlers?)
My wish for this gear would be that it would let the sail out and hold it in a working jib or 110 position with a perfect set. In other words the furler would be designed for the half furled position. We have had this discussion before and I understand that foresail reefers do not exist.
The furler would also unfurl out to a NO. 2 where the shape is more casual let's say. And of course, furl it up totally.
Could this gear be designed to hold at working jib position with a perfect foil?

(Will say that I'm disappointed that a no-aluminum foil foresail reefing system has yet to be invented, except for the screecher. These flyers are not able to take air-foil shape like the into-the-wind working jib. I'm a forward lowering mast guy. Can't we have a working-jib screecher? Scoocher?
I really think a clean wire forestay is the best of all worlds!)


Can furlers be used for class racing? Why not?

[mrgnstrn]

I'll take what Ed says about sailing as the god's own truth. Everyskipper wants his boat to sail as fast and efficiently as possible. If deck sweepers are more efficient and speedy sails then I'm listening. Soon Little Gull will have to get her new suit of sails.

Mainly, the reason for high clew staysails is for vision forward, right?. Especially shorthanded, the ability to see where you're going is comforting.


Is it possible to 'scandalize' a staysail by reefing the clew? That is, reducing the decksweeping action of the sail by folding or rolling the sail UP to a higher clew point?

And conversely, after leaving crowded waters, the clew could be shaken out and the sail returned to its more effective shape.

Has this been done? Does the sail need to be cut differently, or can this actually be done casually? Be nice to have the option.

Ebb,

Not sure I understand your question, so let me play out two possibilities:

1. It is possible to attach the jib sheets to a higher clew position, but leave the tack alone? My guess is that the sail shape would suffer, and not only that, but the loads on the sail would tend to stretch it across the bias, not how the stretch was intended. (PS, I got "Sailrites" manual of jib sail design and construction----> VERY Good even if you don't plan on building a sail. It goes through where to put shape into a sail, how and why, then shows you how to align the fabric to achieve minimum stretch. ever notice how all hte panels are perpendicular to the leech.... "to achieve minimum stretch" is why)

2. is it possible to have a set of reef points on a jib just like on a mainsail. YES! I even inherited a sail that looks like this. There is a second Tack and Second Clew a few feet up from the regular clew and tack. This requires you to lower the halyard just like a mainsail. good because you can keep a sail up and still reef (no need to go bareheaded). Not as good because likely the sail is too full for the conditions that require you to reef. But good as a first reefing step.

-Keith

ps, glad to see my spreadsheet going to use. You can hide "extraneous" sails on the graph by just plugging in "0" for the luff, leech, and foot.

[Commander227]

I just Acquired a new roller furling headsail cut for a Catalina 25 tall rig:
Luff= 30'
leech= 28.4'
Foot= 16.9'
The dimensions are nearly identical to the Commander's #1 genoa;
luff = 30'6"
leech= 30'3"
Foot= 17'
The shorter luff allows for the luff lost to the furling unit and the shorter leech brings the clew up to where you do not need to move your block when under shortened sail
The sheeting angle is perfect and the boat sails very well under it. Visibility is also excellent with the raised clew.