Solar Power, Panels, Charging, Etc.`

[ebb]

3rdman, those prices seem comparable ("compeditive").

Be great if a comparison chart existed that cut thru the hype and maybe cut open the batteries to show us what we paying for. Generally an agm and gel are going to last longer and cause less grief than a wet cell. I'd like to see these high end batteries put to the test (against their claims). How would you test 'service life'? Cycling from 100% discharge 'over 400 times' to 100% capacity certainly could be designed into the procedure. Charging in 1/3 of the time it takes for wet cells, is another claim that could be tested. I guess you could drop then a few times as well.

Odyssey's 'drycell' means just that, there is no acid to spill out of a cracked case.
Agms are more vibration resistant than gels because of the way they are made.
Agms are more efficient charging than gels, have a higher charge acceptance, and while some gels claim to have a long life, agms are said to have a reasonably long life. Go figure.
Agms and gelled are sealed. They require internal pressure to work properly. It's possible to pop a safety valve, which is why it is best when going for these batteries to upgrade to a sophisticated 3 stage charging controller. ($)
It means tho, to me, that you can place these babies in an enclosed living space, which I would not do with a wetcell.
Out side of that, what are the differences between agms and gell?
Length of warranty has to be a good indicator of craftsmanship.

[ebb]

Solar panels keep advancing.
Look at the (bimini grade) 20W roll up 'Powerfilm' (15.4 @1.2A) for $320 on
www.siliconsolar.com

Scroll to Marine Solar Panels

Be interested in what you think since ayeno diddly about this stuff.

[tha3rdman]

ebb, On that site it also hase where you can buy Solar cells 2nds, for 1.60 a watt.

Granted they are ridid cells but has any one every soldered their own panel? How involved is it?

Figured it would leave you the flexibility to make a custom panel to fit where you wanted to put it.

http://www.plastecs.com/solar%20cells.htm - also sells individual cells wish they would break out the watt/sq. in.

[tha3rdman]

Has anyone considered using solar powered spotlights as spreader lights, As I see it the only disadvantage is not being able to turn them off.

[Tony G]

Not bad, this thread goes back 3+ years. It must be time to resurect it.

On one of the other, more recent threads Kent gave us a limited update on his system. Everything works great. So to that extent I did a little digging around (read shopping). Many forums on the web give the Kyocera panels a thumbs up. But the 50 watters are getting hard to find. It seems most of the places I looked were out of stock and some didn't anticipate seeing more any time soon. There were a few 65w, and 80+watt are dreadily available. But the price from a 50 to 65 watt nearly doubles. Did I ever mention that I'm a cheap date-er-skate.

There was a service tech ready to talk this afternoon, maybe milking the Friday timeclock, that seemed knowledgable enough. Found me some 50watters of the same quality, construction, and, in his opinion better track record, albeit somewhat bigger. He proceeded to tell me some of the commonplace 'alterations' customers make to toughen the panels a little more. Of course he didn't suggest I do anything like that even though the manufacturer doesn't warranty their panels for a marine enviornment. Nudge, nudge, wink, wink.

So with Kent's product approval head-nod we blew nextweek's paycheck on a sunsaver controller and a couple of 50 watt panels. Now, I'm not planing on a TV aboard like Aussie Geoff, just enough power is needed to power up a lap-top, or lab-top Craig, stereo, and electric accordian with full compliment of effects pedals. This boat be rockin!

[ebb]

Thinfilm solar was invented 30 years ago -
yet already available for barn roofs true peel and stick inkjet printed solar film has not arrived in our niche market.

The oil and silicon crunch hopefully will put some wings on this technology.
I don't bet on it, being a cynic.
Solar energy seems to attract the most conservative research and development and product imagination in the western world. Its almost as if they are more interested in piggybacking into silicon markets than perfecting the technology. Even the acronym CIGS (for copper-indium-gallium-selenide) has a negative addictive quality.

The time is overdue for pasting featherweight energy making films on hatches and windows. We'll be sticking semi-conductors on mast and boom, on the dodger and on the cabin top.
There'll be simple connectors, direct sun won't be needed for fully charging our AGM's, and there are MBA's right now figuring out how much to stick us for it.
__________________________________________________ _______________________________________________
Paper thin (probably more like cardboard thick) roll up silicon panels are available now. Powerfilm (IOWA SOLAR) is one product. They buiild their panels on plastic rather than glass. Silicon is considered clean, using no highly toxic cadmium that other thin film panels use. The silicon shortage has ended, and while it may get cheaper for manufacturers, it's unlikely that panels will get cheaper for us. Silicon costs more to manufacture into panels and is 1/2 as efficient as CIGS in converting sun to electricity. Little ships need efficient sun energy converters - in ounces not pounds.
__________________________________________________ ________________________________________________
However you will still find Don Casey saying that thin film (rigid or bendy) are 1/2 as efficient as crystaline silicon. While crystaline panels themselves are only 10% efficient at collecting energy and converting it to juice. Warrenties for crystaline panels run 20yrs. Thin film 2 to 5 years. But we may be entering a new age where high oil will push solar to the forefront and innovation will become rapid. And hopefully cheaper.

OZsolar out of Sweden has 25W thin (3mm) film panels you can apply directly to the deck or hull(!). Sizes are 27.2" X 13.6" and 52.8" X 7.2" and 24" X 17".
All 25W and if my conversion is correct 490grams = 16 ounces each. So change is happening. What's the warranty (life expectancy) on these? Are they CIGS or silicon. I can see a solar bra on Little Gull's cabin nose like a Porsche! These seem like handy sizes. And imco as Ariel Cruisers planning our electrical needs we have to start at a minimalist 100 Watt level ( in terms of solar collector surface area) and par it down from there if we have to....

Won't be long we'll have solar panels we can tie onto the lifelines with the lifetime of sunbrella.
Or how about sails being solar collectors?
"Honey, unfurl the small jib we need to charge the Engel!"

[ebb]

I'm challenged by electrics. Don't have the knack for it.
In roaming around the net looking for info - or really looking for how one person did it on their boat - I've often been disappointed. Or 'put off.' General and basic info is useless - the only way I can learn is by example - so going to manuals and books for me is not an option.

The only way to learn is to jump in and acquire the basic stuff by example and necessity. Most controllers of info think you have to start at the beginning. Their tutorials are based on classic education models which are deadly and boring.

The teacher however has to be truly gifted - that's the problem - there aren't too many of them. I have not found a single book on electrics that uses a creative hands-on method to inform the reader on how to wire a 30' foot boat, let's say, from scratch. Of course there'd be a start at a beginning, like learning to sail, basic basics, but then: 'Bam!' here's some ways of setting up your distribution panel, etc. etc. With the whys and wherefores sidebarred and referenced.

Anyway, It is probably a testosterone allocation problem that can't be dealt with here.

We boat people are an RV by definition,
http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/index.php
Set up like Bill's here, there is a nice familiarity, with tons of stuff to wade through and personalities, some seeming well informed.....and there is for newie's a PV Beginners Corner.

[if you go to the url above and get the intro page.
go to the PV Beginners Corner.
go to pg 2 and find an entry by 'techomadia' / 'Solar recommendatiions for a tiny RV....'
Read that entry, naturally, and check out
"Details and pictures of new project archived here."
There is a blue bar that is unresponsive off that page.
But the connection with we who are redesigning the A/C interior and yearning for long passages is obvious: minimalist nomad necessity, gear, construction of their new glass trailer , and solar. Meet somebody new, a couple into tiny living spaces - nice bright blog.]

There are boat specific discussions and prognostications by self-ceded shoguns and gurus on the Advanced Solar Electric Forum.


We have to deal with electrical energy from the minimalist stand. Most posters talk as if they have a huge house platform and addictive needs. It's doubtful that an Ariel can carry a Honda generator and an Ampair wind turbine Yet depending on only the sun for charging batteries out in the South Pacific seems rather foolish. Small boats can't take much hardware weight.
Some people want to get away from it all.
How much is too much - how minimalist becomes too uncomfortable to be fun and sustainable???