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Thread: Upper rudder shaft bushing replacement.

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Twinsburg, Ohio. Boat docked in Vermilion, Ohio
    Posts
    14

    Upper rudder shaft bushing replacement.

    I've seen the maintenence alert concerning the upper rudder shaft; mine looks ok, but I think the bushing should be replaced. Anyone know how much work this is? Is the stock for the bushing something I can order from stock, or will it require further machining? Does the manual the association sells contain detailed information on this?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Rockville MD./boat kept at Annapolis MD.
    Posts
    168

    Upper post bearing

    The original rudder post bearing on Sirocco was more of a cap than a bearing.It had become egg shaped at the opening and could no longer keep out the water under power.I had a machinist friend make a new one from the drawing in the manual.It `s alot better than the original one with probabley 4 or 5 times the bearing surface area.The old one fit over the post and the new one as in the manuel drawing fits down into the post.IT `s a simple job to do about 1/2 an hour at best.
    Last edited by S.Airing; 04-09-2002 at 12:01 PM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Rockville MD./boat kept at Annapolis MD.
    Posts
    168

    Rudder post bearing

    This is what the new rudder post bearing looks like,unfortunately,I have no picture I can put in of the older type.
    Attached Images  
    Last edited by S.Airing; 04-09-2002 at 11:50 AM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Twinsburg, Ohio. Boat docked in Vermilion, Ohio
    Posts
    14
    Does that go all the way through? I was looking at what appears to be a bushing underneath the boat. Perhaps I mean the lower rudder shafht bearing\busing.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Rockville MD./boat kept at Annapolis MD.
    Posts
    168

    Rubber bearing

    Nope,this is just the upper,your post said upper.
    Last edited by S.Airing; 04-09-2002 at 06:42 PM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Orinda, California
    Posts
    2,237
    There is no lower bushing or bearing. The shaft goes directly into the rudder which is attached to the hull by the gudgeon and shoe on the lower half of the rudder shaft.

    A tech drawing for the bearing that fits into the rudder shaft tube just under the tiller head fitting can be found in the Ariel Maual.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Rafael, CA
    Posts
    3,534

    take on the upper shaft bearing

    what the h, it's a gorgeous evening and I'm enjoying a tangerine sea breeze........
    That T'shaped donut in my 338, the upper bearing in the tube is, according to the manual, made from this third of a cxentury old (but forgiving) black micarta. badly out of round, useless. We have had a discussion on this subject various times here. One intrepid professional has used part of a cutlass bearing as a substitute for the original. You don't want a wobbly rudder.
    You might sight down your rudder-tube as I did when the rudder is out just to see how things line up to assess your options. If it is dead strate to the shoe the cutlass is righton. But my frp tube was glassed in about 5/8 of an inch out of line. So a short bearing like the first is what I'm stuck with.
    IMHO you need the cap to keep the bearing in place and protect it. But you may have to provide more tooth to the top of the tube by reworking the top with epoxy and glass powder - to be able to set the cap screws. Mine is all chewed up from attempts to keep it in place.
    Also, after you release the gudgeon on the keel and remove the bearing you are able to slip the rudder shaft out of the bustle by lifting it off the shoe, not possible with a lower bearing (like a couple of tritons I've seen have.) IMHO the g., even if it is merely a strap, is very important for rudder security. I've seen an ariel in the yard without a functioning shoe, depending only on the strap and the bearing on the top to keep the rudder in the boat.
    IMHO, I haven't decided yet, but machined delrin seems to be a choice for a modern remake.
    I'm not even going to ask who's looked down their rudder tube! Fair hulls, Ebb
    Last edited by ebb; 06-19-2012 at 09:45 AM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Solomons Island Md.
    Posts
    142
    I know this was an 11 year old post but i just came across it . I recently purchased the new rudder post bearing from the association and they are perfect , made well and it is an easy job like everyone says but I do recommend using some superlube synthetic grease to lightly coat them inside and out so you dont roll your o-rings on the shaft or the inside of the tube superlube wont hurt the o-rings mine was a tight fit in the tube, but after I removed the tillerhead and the retainer cap I discovered that I never had a rudder post bearing! it was M.I.A. but because the retainer cap was there it kept the slop down some and only slightly rubbed the shaft not bad , but I was lucky the P.Os never used the boat and it sat on the hard for so many years prior to them and maybe that was one of the reasons idk but what an improvement and the cap was missing a set screw also but as Ebb pointed out the retaner cap has to be set just rite for the set screws to bite.
    Commander 5

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Rafael, CA
    Posts
    3,534
    After more than a decade......remember....
    'Repaired' the top of the fiberglass tube with two part laminating epoxy with cabosil for thickening and milled glass powder for strength. It was really chewed up by P.O.'s not seeing the setscrews and wrenching the cap off without backing out the screws.
    Shoeshined the repair smooth and fair after it hardened with sandpaper - making sure the cap sat tite and square on the bearing without a wobble.

    Find the sweet spot for the cap, probably easy/visual access to the 3 set screws, and mark exactly where the screws will hit the tube when screwed home.
    Then drill a slight depression in the tube for each to seat in. If the set screw has a point, then a drillbit can make a perfect seat. Don't drill deep, or you'll have to fix it again.

    With 3 set screws, it's probable that that one won't get a seat given the angle and shortness of the tube in the cockpit. That screw will be out of sight, but I would try to gouge in some sort of slight depression (rat tail file) so that all three screws are working and the cap is secure.

    Can buy 316 set screws of may styles and lengths at McMasterCar.com
    imco
    Last edited by ebb; 06-19-2012 at 11:27 AM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Grand Haven / Muskegon, Michigan
    Posts
    580
    So this isn't good. Looking at the drawings in the manual, I'm not finding this particular part - is that the rudder post bearing? Ideas on suppliers? I can get it machined pretty easily but I might need a drawing. I suppose I could take it to a fabricator, but I'm not crazy about leaving the rudder post flopping around in that fiberglass tube without it - in that case...

    Questions:

    1) Do you think this would be OK to sail with till season's end? It may have been like this for as long as I've owned the boat. I've never seen those broken pieces in the cockpit.

    I put it back together without the rudder post cap just so I could eyeball it. Trying to take it back apart, it is stuck on there pretty well! Not knowing exactly how all of this fits together between this end and the shoe, I was hesitant to pull on it too much to remove it again. Visions of my rudder falling off and sinking to the bottom of the lake!

    So 2) am I safe to pull this back off with some leverage without fear of incapacitating my ship?

    Your input is appreciated!

    Name:  rudderbearing.JPG
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    Kyle
    C-65 Lucky Dawg

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Solomons Island Md.
    Posts
    142
    No worries, the association has them. I purchased 2 but I don't believe I will outlive the first one. Mine was completely missing and when we would hit rough chop, water would come up through it and get in the cockpit. When installing it use superlube or any NON PETROLEUM based lubricant to get it in place so the o- rings don't roll on you. And do what Ebb recommended with Reenforcing the tube base at the deck its a great and necessary idea.
    Commander 5

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Grand Haven / Muskegon, Michigan
    Posts
    580
    Just found this. Funny to keep finding things on this site after 8 years or so... http://www.pearsonariel.org/document/Bearingfrm.htm
    Kyle
    C-65 Lucky Dawg

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Scarborough, Maine
    Posts
    1,430
    Here you go Kyle, I knew there was a thread on this...

    http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussi...rudder+bearing
    Mike
    Totoro (Sea Sprite 23 #626)

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