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Thread: Deck hardware plan, and

  1. #1
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    Arrow Deck hardware plan, and

    Deck hardware

    As you have no doubt gathered from my last few posts I have quietly started dismantling and (at times I fear) doing irreparable harm to my beloved Ariel ‘Faith’. I know it always looks awful when you are working on it, and it is hard to leave her all torn up like she is right now.

    I knew there were some issues to deal with, but put off all summer, then through the fall and finally gave in when I blew my headsail. I am now in maintenance mode.

    I removed the deck hardware aft of the cockpit. Removed the stern light, and flag staff mount. (going with LED tri-color mast head light)

    CARVED out the silicone (see other thread) and filled in the holes with glass and epoxy.

    I have used the heat gun and stripped the layer of resin that had been poured in on top of the paint in the lazarette. I then sanded the edges and re-tabbed the deck edge in and glassed new backing plates in (approx 6” x 9”) under both sides where the cleats will mount.

    On to the point of this thread.

    My deck hardware plan

    Aft;

    Two 6” 316 stainless chocks about where the originals mounted.

    Two Hershoff style 316 stainless Cleats mounted over the glassed in plates. These will have 1” stainless fender washers in addition to the backing plates. I bought 8” cleats, but these do not seem large enough to me, so I have ordered a set of 10” cleats.



    Going to re-use the pad-eyes for the chute, don't have one but that does not mean I never will.

    Amidships;

    New stainless for the Jib sheets, 8" stainless.

    The 8” stainless cleats will go amidships, near the rail. I know most folks use the stanchion, but I want a cleat there for when I need a amidships spring. I currently tie to the stanchion base, and it is a pain at times.

    Foredeck

    I have a 25lb CQR that I am mounting on the bow on a roller. It is going stbd, parallel to the centerline right up next to the head stay plate. (where the stbd chock is now).

    I will replace the port chock with a stainless chock, and add a set approx 18’ aft on the toe rail.



    I am looking to mount a Samson post (centerline of course) about 1/3 of the way back on the foredeck. My thinking is that I can make up the lines through the aft chocks when tieing up, or through the roller when anchoring and through the foreward chock when using the secondary anchor.



    I am debating on mounting a second set of cleats up forward, maybe just inboard of the aft chocks. That way I would have more then one point on the bow to make up to in storm preps.

    I have another set of 12” Hershoff cleats I can use, that I was going to place in-line like the cleats are now.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
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    Cool. I always wanted a Samson Post. I wonder if it would tend to snag the jib sheet when tacking?

    The two additional cleats up forward may be over-kill. They would also be going through cored deck. Might want to beef up the deck from underneath if they're going to get hard use. You'll see how Pearson glassed in a piece of wood on centerline for the cleat.

    Chocks. Some of them are real line-cutters. The ones they sell all seem to have fairly sharp edges. I'd like to see them more rounded on the inside.

    Seems to me that boats rarely get loose because the deck hardware fails, or the rope is to weak. Its always chafe cutting the line.

  3. #3
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    Question a couple questions

    As I start to re-install the hardware, I have a couple questions.

    Looking at the manual, pg 148, I see the 'spin cleat' located 2' aft of the Jib sheet cleat (which is 17" aft the winch).

    #226 had a pair of square pad eyes there, which I figured were for a chute. (maybe in place of the cleats in the drawing)

    The only padeyes the manual shows are at end of the Genoa tracks labled "Lifeline eye plate".

    Adding more confusion is the fact that #226 also had a second set of cleats, FWD of the winches

    So........

    As I posted I am planning the 10" cleats aft(with a 6"x9" 1/4"aluminum backing plate) with 6" chocks for mooring (& the drogue).

    Then, of course there are the 8" jib sheet cleats, which will go back about the same place 17" aft the winch was orig, I guess I will go about 17". What is the rule of thumb about the angle of the cleats?

    Then there are the 4" square padeyes approx even with the end of the cockpit. I will re-install these, even though I don't have a chute. I want to be able to run one, and they are good jack line tie off points if not needed for the chute (I admit being pretty much in the dark on this one).

    I am not planning on putting the third set of cleats back on, that were just forward for the winches. I don't really understand what these were there for...

    Any guesses?

    Do you need a second set of cleats for a chute? It seems like the Jib sheet cleats would be unused when you would be flying it

  4. #4
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    Post Samson Post?

    Do you really want a Samson Post ?
    If so what are you going to do with the bitt in that photo?

    A samson post is part of the crane or derrick on a cargo ship , the vertical part , often seen in pairs and reffered to as "goalposts" when the booms are housed for going to sea.
    In very old sailing lingo it was a temporary post erected on deck to help in shipping an anchor to the cathead.

    Arrrgh matey, you guys are getting too lubberly during the long cold winter of no sailing!

  5. #5
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    a 'bit' of correction

    Thanks Mike,

    I guess I needed a 'bitt' of correction there.

    Any clues as to the third set of cleats? Or suggestions about the cleat angles?



    I have tried to look at pictures of others boats, but have found few clues.

  6. #6
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    I really don't know anything about spinnakers, but I think you first have to figure out where to put the turning blocks or track and maybe even another set of winches.

    Those cleats on the deck don't seem too good to me. The line would have to be flat to the deck before they would even work. How could that work with the line coming off the winch?

    With a spinnaker, you might even want cam cleats to blow the chute quickly.

    There's a little something on the Harken website

    http://www.harken.com/rigtips/spinnaker.php
    Last edited by commanderpete; 03-30-2005 at 06:31 AM.

  7. #7
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    Thanks Commanderpete

    Commanderpete,

    That diagram actually clears it up for me quite a bit. It appears that the aft pad eyes[size=1] ('G' in the diagram)[/size] are to secure blocks that turn the lead back to the winch which would make sense to have to cleats fwd to receive the lines on the other side (with the lines now leading forward).

    I will try to take some pictures later of the set up as I imagine it, to clear this up. I am going out to apply another coat of topcoat now.

    Thanks!

  8. #8
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    Mike,
    What do you belay the anchor warp to?
    Isn't a very strong attachment point on deck that the whole weight of the boat is hanging on to in a hurricane a good thing?
    What do you suggest is best, a 15" cleat?

  9. #9
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    Thumbs up Bitts

    Ebb,
    If I were cruising, I would install a 4x4 hardwood post thru the deck and tie into the forward chain locker bulkhead . That is the way it is done on big boats and ships. The post goes all the way to the keel and sits in a step .
    This post could be stainless or bronze if you have the bucks .
    The top of the post could/would look just like the polished bitt in the first post.
    A little re-inforcing under the deck wouldn't hurt either .

    I prefer bitts over cleats , a double bitt is better yet .

  10. #10
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    Thanks Mike,
    I would too. A warping post. A compleatly trustworthy point of attachment!
    I've looked at it and see that bringing the post down to the stem would pretty well compromise the space, it's not much, but useful open like it is. So my thoughts have also gone to the bolt on 'samson post.' Or larger double cleats on the deck. What ever way the underdeck must be beefed up!

    Placing the post, it is natural to have it go thru the deck matching the plywood bulkhead, either to the inside or the outside, guts tell me inside. That's a question? 338's deck is compromised, but c.amos must have some leeway. Where it go? Is the post part of your anchoring system?

    On a thru deck post, have taken a good bit of wood off the sides once it has left the blocking under the deck. That is, pointed the post somewhat on 3 sides its whole lower length. (The side that will attach to the bulkhead would stay flat, no short grain.) This might keep the forepeak a little more useful. Is this worth doing?

    On the gaff rig I had I also put two in the quarters (with regalvanized open pipe pieces thru the top.) The trouble with posts, in my truncated experience. is that they are only good for looping an eye over. You still need cleats for end tying a line. Right? Tying off on a post created an ungainly and awkward heap of line.

    So, for the Ariel foredeck, a full 4X4 would not be too much?
    What wood might you choose? Bungabunga? Don't think teak can take serious chaffing. Has to be dense and hard and no checking.
    I had a whiteoak post once, it developed cracks, never was a way to keep it looking good.

    There is the issue of this hunk piercing the deck and how do you caulk it?
    I had collars of 1/2" ply (that always looked like ply no matter what I did) like the chainplates have that only worked around the posts because it increased the surface area of the caulk. I think it could always want to leak, probably still does ifn the boat is alive still, given the shrinking and swelling of wood problem. Any fresh water at the join contributes to rot. What to do, what to do..? Thanks

    Mike, was thinking, you'd probably caulk the seam with oakum, correct?
    Last edited by ebb; 03-30-2005 at 12:44 PM.

  11. #11
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    Arrow

    My choice is , ash post set with wedges of cedar bedded in 5200 .
    I like running it all the way down, tie the bitter end to the lower post .
    Put a 1/2" bronze round stock through the post above deck. 2 round turns topped with a clove hitch and that line isn't going anywhere and wont chafe line or post. chamfer the edges of the post of course .
    Under the deck a 12x12x1.5" block bored 5" square to house the post , wedged with 1/2" cedar set in 5200 . I have done about 120 or so like this with no leaks so far . I think a pure bead of 5200 1/2x1" would work as good if the post was well attached to the bulkhead.

  12. #12
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    Thanks Mike,
    Will be looking for the ash, pronto!

  13. #13
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    Oh boy. Isn't some other part of your anchor system going to fail before the forward cleat gets ripped clean through the wood and out of the deck? At least the anchor is going to drag.

    I do think it's worthwhile to put in new bolts and add a larger backing plate.

    I got some 1/4" aluminum too Craig. Nice fellow let me have some from his scrap cutting bucket. Lifetime supply. Never hurts to ask.

    Now how do I cut it? Angle grinder?
    Attached Images  

  14. #14
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    Talking The tug boat motif

    Couple shots of my 10" cleats aft.

    Perfect for towing a drogue, or maybe moonlighting as 'Sea-Tow'
    Attached Images  


    s/v 'Faith'

    1964 Ariel #226
    Link to our travels on Sailfar.net

  15. #15
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    Update

    As I wander through my projects list, I have found my way to the bow.

    I am very happy with the 10" cleats aft, and now plan to upgrade the midships cleats to 10" also.

    The 'Stainless' cleats have been a bit of a disappointment in the sense that they are not only mostly stainless.

    Now thinking about changing over to bronze..... have already sold most of the other stainless ones I had planned to use.

    Latest plan includes the removal of the pair of original alloy chocks on the bow and adding a roller on a raised platform (not hanging very far over the bow, with big ole backing plate).

    The original dorade is going away (no way to secure it against ingress of water), and a capped deck fitting will go somewhere where it makes sense.

    Pair of cleats about 12" aft from the stem fitting will serve for mooring, while the bit will take the anchor rode.

    That's the plan anyway, I will post pictures of how it all works out.

    OBTW, I am making pads on the deck to mount the bow pulpit, and other hardware on. My hope is that having these areas that are vulnerable to leaks less so.

    Anyone know where I can get a good deal on 6 10" bronze cleats?


    s/v 'Faith'

    1964 Ariel #226
    Link to our travels on Sailfar.net

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