All those wires inside my mast gotta go!

[ebb]

me again...
SkiperJer, interesting advice.
For the electrically challenged a drawing would help a lot.

I am thinking that a connection system that would allow the mast to be EASILY disconnected for whatever reason would be a good thing. That is aside from lowering and raising 'on the run.' I was hoping there was in the marine market a waterproof junction box that would be placed over the wire thru cabin fitting that would allow efficient disconnect. There might be two glands under such a box. One to get the coaxial cable inside and there have an even more protected junction. But it doesn't exist, yet, does it? Are there any O-ring coax barrel fittings? There are, but not weather or salt proof we can use on deck?

A strong ondeck junction box would be better to make waterproof with rubber goop or gasket replacement than wires going direct thru the deck. In a perfect world wouldn't it be a good thing if the mast could be taken down by the skipper on a regular basis? That is, all mast wires would disconnect in the junction box on deck. I can think that at haul out for bottom paint work that if the mast was already horizontal when arriving at the yard maintenance wouldn't be a problem, and we'ld save the mast pulling charge.

How do we set up for the (near)perfect disconnect or just connecting for that matter ON deck. Need help visualizing, designing. Thanks

[John]

Ah yes...Mast wiring....I teach Marine Electronics for our local Power Squadron. (A great source of good info). The material I have says that code and ABYC standards call for minimum wire size of 16 ga stranded. I have not seen any recommendations for minimums in the mast. 12 ga makes sense.

I have seen 2 suggestions but have tried neither. The first was to buy the longest heaviest wire ties you can find and then use 3 at a time to make a spider every few feet. In other words, tie them so the ends are about 120 deg. around all the wires in the mast. This assumes you can drop all your wiring and then pull it back in the mast with the spiders in place. The second is a variation on the foam suggestion. Buy the foam split tubes that are used to insulate pipe runs in cold places. Wire tie them in place and slide them up as far you cana nd keep placing on the wires until you can't get them to slide up any further,

I replaced the wiring for my steaming/deck lamps last year. I used tri-plex cable in the mast but did not try either method. I am thinking of trying the tubes. I used a snake to pull the cable into the mast and that was fiarly simple. I had to use some light gauge wire to pull wire up through the compression post.

[Scott Galloway]

To All Responders: Thanks for the great response and excellent ideas. I really like the wire tie spider idea, and the PVC idea makes much sense. I think that my foam insulation goes only up to the spreaders, or perhaps only to the steaming light. I have never noticed any clanging of wires in the mast. What is actually up there remains to be seen.

Tony and Ebb: I don’t want to remove my masthead, because I don’t need to do so at this point. I have wires where I want them and I hope to be able to pull them out with pull lines attached. I then hope to pull new coaxial cable up the mast. Were I painting ther mast, I would need to remove all of the fasteners, I suppose, but I don't intend to paint the mast. Most of my stainless steel fasteners look good, but they don’t remove easily. We had to cut the bolt off the tabernacle plate at the mast step.

The only other electric device that I have on the mast is the steaming light. I am replacing that fixture, but again it comes equipped with existing wires. That is a short run and does not concern me quite so much as getting beyond the spreader tube and up to the masthead where the VHF antenna hangs out.

I really do like the PVC idea. The small diameter electrical conduit PVC sells at Orchard Supply hardware for less than $2.00 for a ten-foot section. It is flanged on one end so no connecters are necessary. It should be a piece of cake to shove that stuff with enclosed wires up the mast. That would also allow me to take another set of electrical wires up there if I decide to add a tricolor light or other mast top electrical device. I don’t like the idea of pop riveting the PVC to my mast, which is pristine and without blemish between the steaming light and the main halyard sheave. I have been wondering if it would be possible to add some sort of rubber donuts (perhaps very short sections of closed cell foam pipe insulators) surrounding the PVC every few feet to prevent the PVC from banging against the mast, and then leave it unattached to the mast with the exception of a mastbase attachment point within reach of the bottom of the mast.

I did check around today for soft hose, which might be used instead of the PVC, but all of the hose that I saw was very heavy. The electrical conduit version of PVC pipe is really very light weight.

Bill: I have completely stripped the mast and spreaders to bare aluminum. There never were any spreader lights, at least on this set of spreaders, but the wires that run up that way remain a mystery.

SkipperJer: I was informed today the pipe insulating foam is closed cell and therefore does not absorb water. I would imagine, however that any hollow foam tube open at a seam and also at the top would collect and hold water, even if it is closed cell. The photo below is taken from the mast base. The main halyard track at the back of the mast is to the left of the photo.

[SkipperJer]

Having participated in the removal of "closed-cell foam" from a mast on a friend's boat I can tell you first hand it is water-friendly. It STUNK! It was the standard Home Depot keep-your-pipes-from-freezing-sleeves-slit-down-the-sides application and it was covered with mold. Maybe it isn't a true sponge but it gave water an excuse to hang around. It was especially over-grown in the core around the wire. It had been in there for years and water had probably migrated down from the exit holes for the wires to the VHF antenna and the anchor light as well as our humid climate here on the Chesapeake. That might not be such a problem on the West coast so it might work for you but the wire-tie rig is soooo easy and the wraps are handy for other things on the boat too.

On the subject of getting wire through the deck, Blue Sea Systems has a product called a CableClam

http://www.bluesea.com/product.asp?Product_id=24908

that allows for passing a cable with a connector on it through the deck and then recreating a water tight seal. It appears they expect the application/use to be seasonal unstepping of the mast rather than regular per/trip use. I think their instructions could be a little clearer but the product has worked for me so far. Water tight and easy to install. You might take a look at it as part of your solution.

[ebb]

Great first hand!
ANYTHING that keeps moisture/salt water IN the mast should not be there.
It's cable ties - or pvc for me if I can be convinced that conduit is best for the extra effort.
Thanks!

The bluesea fitting looks great for the coax. But how is a bundle of wires to go thru the deck? And allow sometime removal of the mast. I'm really not surprised that nobody has come up with a solution. It's daunting. Each wire as a duplex could go thru a gland.......need three or five more......and the duplex isn't nice and round. Haven't the Germans or Japanese figured this out yet???

[Bill]

On new yachts, what is the solution to the through deck wiring question (for deck stepped masts)? As I recall from boat show attendance, there are no stray wires extending from their masts to the deck. Do they use something similar to the tube found in the center of the mast step on later year Ariels and Commanders? Of course, if the tube was not flexible, that arrangement would probably limit any mast lowering ability.

[SkipperJer]

Commanders have it easier since multiple wires can go down through the mast step then through the compression post and come out a hole in the side of the c-post just below the floor board. I installed a multi-pin connector like a trailer hitch plug for unstepping the mast where they pass out of the foot of the mast where it sits on the mast step. Originally there had only been a 2 pole plug for the steaming light. I added two more wires for an anchor light I intend to install at a later date and pulled the extra wires. Auto parts stores and/or U-haul have all sorts of connectors that will do the trick.

Scott, I think that tabernacle arrangement of yours is really neat but this is its Achilles heel. A multi-pin connector plugged and unplugged when you drop the mast would work for lighting but such on/off connectors on RF cable don't have a history of reliability or longevity.

After all this I re-read Don Casey's chapter on installng the PVC pipe inside the mast and I'll risk being overbearing by saying one more time--the wire-tie trick is soooo easy and works soooo well I can't imagine the PVC approach is worth the extra effort and holes in the mast. Less drilling--more sailing!

[ebb]

eebb's fertile (full of ..it) brain comes up with the solution.

It is an 'ak-mak' sized strong plastic box that has, on one or two of the four sides, slots in the tray and in the lid matching slots the size of insulated duplex.
Mast wires come up thru a common hole in the cabin top directly into the box where they will be spliced, clipped, connected to their upper half that are directed into the tray each thru a slot. All wires and cable are connected in the box tray.

A clear silicone like insulating substance is poured into the tray surrounding all the connections, completely filling the space around and over the wires, the lid is slipped on and pushed down clamping each wire in place. Some of the goop may squirt out small spaces here and there, and out the bottom. When the stuff is set the box can be trodden on. That's it.

The pudding goop is, maybe, a friable plastic like the dip that comes from the saw sharpeners used to protect saw teeth. It is easily broken away and doesn't stick. If anybody knows what the fruitgel membrillo is, that's it.

So, since the plastic doesn't stick per se but likes to get real close - you pry up the lid. breaking the suction, lift the connection brick out and break it apart. Then pull the joints apart, cleanly detatching your mast.

The stuff picks off pretty clean. Then, repeat to go again. Easy. huh?