New Fangled Hoses & SEACOCKS!

[Scott Galloway]

I was informed in 2004 by Groco engineering staff that the warranty on their product is valid for either the thru-hull-bolt approach that Ebb described above or the screws-into-the-glassed-on block that was used on my boat.

I didn't wish to have three additional holes per seacock drilled through the hull of my boat. So the bronze screws holding the seacock from turning on its thru hull fitting are drilled into the block, but do not penetrate the hull. This approach works and apparently satisfies the manufacture's installation criteria, which in my case is established by Groco.

The mounting blocks on my boat were created by glassing pre-drilled, resin-saturated plywood blocks to the hull and building up a fillet around the plywood block and a layer of cloth over the block followed by a layer of gelcoat. The seacock is then mounted on the block with three bronze screws that are drilled into the block.

Additionally, I commented earlier that I was informed by the professionals in my boat yard that the seacock installation on my boat meets the AYBC standards. As I understand it, this standard requires the seacock/thru-hull installation be able to withstand a 500 lb lateral impact. I have been informed by people I trust that the installation on my boat was designed to meet that standard.

[ebb]

Thanks, Tim.
You'll find it in Archives under Attention to Detail.
Type of hose recommended for under water (nothing less than wet exhaust) is also mentioned
and just as important to how robust the installation is.

Steve D'antonio, the writer, has a test I've not heard before.

It's the STAND-ON-IT test.
If you can't stand on any part of your valve, hose and hole-through-hull system
it is not strong enough!

[ebb]

Just checked back again into Forespar catalog and data sheets. Nothing has changed.
They have diagrams (no photos of actual installations) showing their IN-LINE ball valves used as seacocks.

Thru-hulls have STRAIGHT THREADS. When you buy one it comes with a bulkhead nut.
They show the nut being used inside on a backing block to hold the fitting in the hull. They show this on bottom of hull diagrams. DEAD WRONG.

The in-line ball valve has PIPE THREADS on both sides of the valve.
(Altho I have heard people swear this isn't so.)
When you screw pipe threads onto straight threads they will start jamming almost immediately.
You may get it on about 1/2". By then you are distorting the threads. Could say that the valve is being held on with just a bit of thread since the thread in the valve is truncated, not straight.
The ball valve is in an obvious precarious position. A child couldn't stand-on-it!

When you think of it, you are using a hole liner
which is unfastened and unsupported to hold your bulky turn off valve and pipe - which you probably had to force under stress to get it together. It is ludicrous that Forespar recommends this situation. Grocco also shows this in-line ballcock BS in their literature but at least they print a disclaimer and don't recommend it. Anything to make a buck.

Forespar has a disclaimer that they will not be held responsible for 'improper installation." and I suppose Grocco has also.
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LEAVE THE FACTORY GEAR IN PLACE.
After seeing a photograph in Good Old Boat showing an old ball valve used as a seacock in an article on spring maintenance, Jerry Powlas and I had an exchange of emails. I originally complained that in a national magazine you can't show the general pubic things that are wrong without comment. After some long emails from Jerry, he had this to say:
"Still there would be cases where I would leave the factory gear in place, as I have done with most of the stuff in my own boat. This, even after I could have replaced all of it and handed my insurance company the bill after Mystic was hit by lightning. I could not bring myself to move the openings to make room for modern gear and specs when the buggered old stuff had served without complaint for three decades. Also, since the damage from the lightning was so extensive, the only way I could save poor little Mystic from the wrecking ball, or an auction was to do most of the work myself, Thus, I would have had to remove the old valves, plug the holes in the hull. find an new place for them with more room, bore the holes, mount the valves, and find a way to pipe to the new locations. Withe everything else I had to do, it was an easy choice.
Still,.........I hope I did the right thing. You never know for sure."

A splendid, casual admission of what seems to be a common complacency. The old installations worked for three decades, they are certain to last three more. I found no mention of the photo of the wrong installation in subsequent issues of the mag. So the WRONG installation has been reinforced in the readership as a CORRECT installation.
This may be because a non- US company shows to manufacturers of boats and customers alike wrong diagrams of installations that given the source seem to make it right.
As far as Jerry Powlas' mag is concerned, imco he did the wrong thing.
In terms of his own boat, attitude, money and time ruled his decision not to upgrade and CORRECT when he could have.
Maybe we all do this. His decisions for his boat also compromised the integrity of his magazine, imco!
Maybe you can't DO the right thing - but you must show that you KNOW what the right thing to do is - and WHY.
If you happen to be the publisher of an influential boat mag, what do you do.... gloss over it?
Not the unvarnished truth a subscriber deserves!
A great comfort as the water rises due to a good enough broken valve.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _______________________
"The world is a dangerous place.
Not because of the people who are evil;
but because of the people who don't do anything about it." Alberto Einstein

[Scott Galloway]

Ebb and other interested parties,

All you have to do before you install new Groco Seacocks is contact the factory and they will mail or e-mail you their detailed installation instructions which specify the type of installation required to meet their warranty requirements. I also discussed installation with them by telephone. They were very helpful concerning the options and recommended materials and gave me guidance back in 2004 when I was had concerns with an installation that was not consistent with their warranty requirements.

[ebb]

[11/24/10]
Chance at 'Commander #256 (Ceili)' is installing a bronze Groco system using a patented flanged adapter of Groco's that allows an inline ballvalve to be used instead of a seacock.
His installation is elegant and innovative.
imco THE BEST retro on thruhull systems using bronze.



Here in a blog is the end-all/be-all primer on this controversial subject we've been engaged in here...
Can't find right off who generates it but it has the ooooomph of MaineSail [CompassMarine]
or his sister.

Before you mess with that hole in your boat, look at this...
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/seacock_primer

Then be inspired by Chance's install.
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Can't find the author of this quote:
"Tradition is what you resort to when you haven't the time or money to do it right."
ain't that the truth