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Thread: Tiller Discussions

  1. #91
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Narragansett Bay, R.I.
    Posts
    597
    Mike

    the tiller fix looks great, and 38 1/2" doesn't sound too short to me. It looks a lot like the one i've got installed on Periwinkle

    cheers,
    bill@ariel231

  2. #92
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Rafael, CA
    Posts
    3,575

    wish bone tiller

    Something has always bugged me about that tiller fitting. First thing was its humongous weight. Second is the narrow channel for the tiller wood.

    Can't see that any strength would be lost by scooping out some of the top of the tillerhead. However, with laminated tillers predominating, the closed top allows a decent way to attach a shapely laminated tiller using vertical bolts..

    A composite tiller could be designed that would attach the tiller to the OUTSIDE of the present tiller fitting.

    In other words the tiller would be split to go around the metal sides rather than THROUGH it! It's the tiller that would have tangs.
    Such a tiller could virtually eliminate the breaking moment of our usual insert tiller that has barely 1 1/4" of wood thickness doing all the work. Could call it a wishbone type design with the split meeting sooner or later up the tiller shank to become the standard handle form. Would keep it even lighter not filling between.

    Seems to me that the narrowness of our tiller inserted into the metal could just as easily break there where it leaves the fitting. Even done as Mike has. The tiller after all is a lever and at a real disadvantage in this application.


    Can't see that the laminated tiller form as we know it could be altered into a split version as described. Too much small wood. But a modern foam and fabric (this has already been done with carbon) tiller might work.
    Last edited by ebb; 06-20-2008 at 10:45 AM.

  3. #93
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Cocoa, Florida
    Posts
    3
    I also recently got a replacement tiller for my 1966 Pearson Ariel from H&L and am quite pleased with it. Here are the details:
    323-636-1718
    Tiller shape: E
    bracket end height: 2 inches
    bracket end width: 1 and 1/4 inches
    length of tiller: 39 inches
    curve height: 2 and 1/4 inches
    $70.70 finished

  4. #94
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Scarborough, Maine
    Posts
    1,439
    That would certainly have been the easier route to go!

    PS. Finally got a sail in and I think the tiller will work out fine - no problem with the shorter length...
    Mike
    Totoro (Sea Sprite 23 #626)

  5. #95
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Currently Willow Spring, NC
    Posts
    33
    Hey Commanderpete,

    Was reading this thread in the archive because my tiller is split at the handhold end and seems solid at the bracket end. Just getting ideas for a replacement. Where was this shot taken? Either one of those mugs you?
    "That's what a ship is, you know. It's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs but what a ship is... is freedom." Captain Jack Sparrow

  6. #96
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Rafael, CA
    Posts
    3,575

    tiller maker

    H & L Marine Woodwork
    2965 E Harcourt St.
    Rancho Dominguez Ca 90221
    323-636-1718
    310-638-8746
    fax 323-636-1720

    Largest and oldest marine workworking outfit in US.
    Probably make all of the ash/mahogany laminated tillers you see in any catalog (pyacht, defender, wm) and in any store.
    The tillers have a sleek and recognizable style.

    [They custom made a tiller for litlgull* for about the same cost as one of their ready-made classboat tillers.
    I mailed them a full sized cardboard pattern which they translated into a beautiful laminated tiller at a reasonable price. And in about a week.]
    Check their prices first befor committing to an internet catalog purchase.

    They may have a pattern for a replacement tiller for Ariel/Commanders.
    Ask, if that's what you want.
    They may have made and supplied the original tillers for Pearson A/Cs 50 years ago.


    *You can get your new tiller bare or varnished. Since the tiller has to be carved to get it to fit our tiller head - and also I wanted to prep the wood myself with penetrating epoxy and use Epifanes varnish - I got it unfinished. It was a little cheaper, but also arrived nicely sanded, ready to go, and beautifully made.

    A pleasurable experience!


    {I must apologize for all the endless repetition I have made here on this subject.

    In the future I'll try to remember to review the thread BEFOR posting. Sorry.}
    Last edited by ebb; 06-28-2011 at 10:23 PM.

  7. #97
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Asst. Vice Commodore, NorthEast Fleet, Commander Division (Ret.) Brightwaters, N.Y.
    Posts
    1,823
    Hi Greg

    I'm in the back on one of those pictures

    Ebb is right, H & L is the place to go. They still don't have a website I believe.

    I like the tiller design from the Manual. It might be improved if the handhold end drooped down so it was a bit flatter

    Edit: I found another thread on tillers -- [now merged with this thread, Moderator]
    Attached Images  
    Last edited by Bill; 06-25-2011 at 11:50 AM.

  8. #98
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Rafael, CA
    Posts
    3,575

    Huey & Louie

    That has to be (from the nice way the tiller handle ends)
    an H&L.
    And that's taller than the the Montauk Lighthouse the young man is looking at...so where are we?
    Last edited by ebb; 06-28-2011 at 10:24 PM.

  9. #99
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    7

    New questions on tillers -- H&L looks to be out of business

    My tiller has some fixable cracks in it. I plan to buy a new tiller, and then, fix the old one and use it as a backup.

    For the new tiller I have two questions:

    1. I see the drawing on page 83 of this association's manual. It sounds like people like the shape and it looks better than my current tiller, so I am thinking about going with the drawing. Have others had good experience using the drawing?

    2. Do forum members recommend any new tiller companies? In my web search I found Rudder Craft in Idaho (they have a Commander Tiller) and Anytiller in Georgia (they will make you a custom tiller). Are these good companies or does anyone have a different post-H&L favorite?

  10. #100
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    7

    Tiller Update -- With H&L out of business. Has anyone found another good Tiller Co?

    My Pearson Commander tiller has some fixable cracks in it. I plan to buy a new tiller, and then, fix the old one and use it as a backup.

    For the new tiller I have two questions:

    1. Do forum members recommend any new tiller companies? In my web search I found Rudder Craft in Idaho (they have a Commander Tiller that looks similar to my current Tiller) and Anytiller in Georgia (they will make you a custom tiller). Are these good companies or does anyone have a different post-H&L favorite?

    2. I see the drawing on page 83 of this association's manual. It sounds like people like the shape and it looks better than my current tiller, so I am thinking about going with the drawing. Have others had good experience using the drawing?

    BTW, This forum is hugely helpful and so is the manual. I thank you all for managing the forum and keeping it active. I hauled out my boat and had all the bottom work done as specified in the manual. Thanks!

  11. #101
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Rafael, CA
    Posts
    3,575
    H&L probably got sold 10 years ago, thereabouts. But someone is still around on the
    internet selling tillers very like H&L They will show a stack of their tillers very much like
    the original company did. But it may also have new ownership. RUDDER CRAFT
    comes to mind, MauriPro looks like they offer class laminated tillers,
    which may be RudderCraft.

    I didn't like the original knee basher tiller and, made up a pattern slightly more S curve (it
    looks more radical than it is) that swings pretty much above sitting knees in the back of the
    cockpit. Instead of close matching to an existing class tiller, they used the pattern to
    make an exact copy, and charged me no more than a normal price, which always was
    very reasonable.

    I like the tiller very much. The exaggerated S curve looks normal to me. It also allows
    the tiller to be used in the resting down position when the helmsman is standing, where
    the tiller is supported in the tiller-head, instead of being angled up using only the 5/16"
    machine screw that attaches the tiller to the head. This screw/bolt is not easily replaced.
    I have never found a ready-made.

    I don't believe the boat should be steered with the tiller in the raised position.

    One other thing. These laminated tillers are at a disadvantage with the attachment bolts
    passing thru the laminations in their present side to side position. This is where we see most
    wood to metal failures occur. After reducing the tiller end to fit the channel, I located the
    attachment bolts thru the top of the channel so that the laminations are held in a clamp
    position. Instead of washers under the nuts underneath I made a short one piece strip out
    bronze strap. This may be unnecessary.

    I lucked out back then when I scored what I stlll think is a perfect tiller. Fastening the
    laminated tiller thru the top came from one of our owners here, sorry, forget who, but is
    the perfect alternative to attaching softer glued-up material to that massive tillerhead.
    Isolate the wood from the metal.

    Likely that the tiller will need replacement in the future. Use an old-fashioned bedding
    compound to waterproof the connection. Seal the end of the tiller with liquid epoxy. If
    no bedding compound is available judiciously use LANOCOTE, you want to keep fresh
    water out of the joint. Don't use any of the rubbers like 4200, Sikaflex, BoatLife. I
    wouldn't use butyl or butyl tape either! NO RUBBER.

    Semper Alberg!
    Last edited by ebb; 11-22-2020 at 03:01 PM.

  12. #102
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    7

    @ebb -- would you share the dimensions of you S-shaped tiller?

    I assume your S-shaped tiller is different from the one in the commander manual. Is this assumption correct?

  13. #103
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Rafael, CA
    Posts
    3,575
    YES did find a doorskin pattern for the Litlgull tiller.

    Being doorskin I will assume it is accurate and was
    used to send H&L the pattern. If interested, send me
    an email: eborregaard@hotmail.com.

    There may be somewhere in Ebb's Gallery a photo
    of the tiller, or the pattern???


    Could say the knee-friendly tiller is more of a bow
    shape with a short angled straight end into the tiller-
    head.
    You could sit in the cockpit with a stiff piece of card
    board and using your straight tiller Sharpie a few
    curvaceous lines to get the idea. H&L ash and
    mahogany tillers have a beautiful taper, which was
    created for the 'cobra' style tiller that H&L made.


    Suggestion: Go to the ruddercraft.com site. Go in
    thru products/tillers and hit the Ranger29 tiller. It
    has a fairly pronounced upward curve. BUT lay a
    straight edge under the picture, you'll see the curve
    is not as radical as it seems. I made a full sized
    pattern of a Ranger tiller (back then), didn't like it
    because the upward curve was too gradual. It is an
    'S' curve. So I made a pattern with a quicker rise.

    I know nothing about RudderCraft. Wouldn't
    surprise me they'd make a custom tiller using a
    custom pattern but using their own taper formula.
    For a price. Maybe reasonable!
    They seem to have all the old class patterns that
    H&L had, they must be direct descendants..
    Last edited by ebb; 11-23-2020 at 12:22 PM.

  14. #104
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Rafael, CA
    Posts
    3,575
    Swear there was a new post here that laid out the measure of the rudder stock..

    Turns out the stock is 69 1/4" OA. Hope to get back here with a little more..

    __________________________________________________ ______________
    Ebb's a wee confused. Go to RUDDER DISCUSSIONS for rudder stock talk.
    Last edited by ebb; Today at 09:29 AM.

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