Exterior Wood Finishes

[Theis]

A Lot of questions: See how I do with the answers.

1. Replacement Screws. With the exception of the vary largest bolts, everything is available in stainless from WEST, except that they will have Phillips heads. The largest bolts, like the ones that hold the coaming to the cockpit, are available from Jamestown Distributors, as I recall. Only use either stainless, or chrome plated brass (No cadmium or zinc plated steel because of eventual rust).

2. What I have used successfully for filling the holes, when the wood screws don't hold, are slivers of wood forced into the empty screw hole. The best choice, in my opinion, are slivers shaved from hardwood furniture pegs. Mahogany slivers are OK, as are wooden match sticks, but the mahogany is softer. Just shove them down there until the hole is full of the sticks, break off the slivers flush with the surface and then put the screw in. If the screw is load bearing, then fill the hold with some sort of water repellant glue, like Franklin Hide Glue, before pushing the slivers in and . Then pur the screws in and let it dry.

3. The clear substance might have been a silicone sealer. However, rather than using that, I would recommend, and have used a sulfite, like 3M 101 for the purpose. Do NOT use a polyurethane adhesive (like 3M 5200). You need a sealer, not an adhesive so that you can get them off if you need to at some time in the future. Don't use the silicone again because if any of it slops over on the fiberglass, paint will not stick, even if you wipe the goo off.

Best wishes on your endeavor. You have a super boat.

[willie]

Welcome aboard!
I was thinking you were referring to covering the bolt heads with a plug or bung. Me too. I bought a bag of 100 if you need 75 or so!
Now this may sound a little dumb on my part (not unusual), but now i'm wondering how to get the bungs from their 1/2'' thickness down to, oh, maybe 1/8 or so to fit flush over the heads of the bolts holding the coamings on. Also the coaming have a great finish right now, bungs don't. So now what? Hold them on a belt sander until they're about right, glue in with elmers? then spot varnish? The bolt heads don't look THAT bad, but would be nice to have the bungs over them. Any wood shop teachers in the group? Gotta be a trick to all these little details!

[Mike Goodwin]

1st the grain of the bung must run with the grain of the board .
You glue the bungs in place as they are (use varnish as the glue) not Elmers , the correct tool for trimming is called a "slick" , a very large and heavy chisel . I have a slick that is 40" long and the blade is 3-3/4" wide . Place the blade flat on the surface and slide forward slicing off the bung excess. It can be done without f***ng the varnish .
Not having a slick , and I bet a beer you don't , you can use an orbital sander and sand the bung down flat to the surface ( of course that f**s the finish ) and you get a nice fit and finish.
Sanding the bungs with a belt sander before install is asking for a spot on Americas Funniest Videos.
Last year I made over 4,000 bungs and installed them on the Schooner Virginia , you might call me the expert , I also trained a helper in bung cutting and making and taught several volunteers to install bungs.

[ebb]

Most carpenters will have a set of Fuller's countersink drills for 4 or 5 screw sizes and corresponding plug cutters. The drills are used in hand-held tools while the plug cutters are used in the press. These plugs are slightly truncated - unlike the bagged ones - so that when tapped in the hole they usually fit tight. Store bought plugs may not fit well because they are parallel sided. Make-yer-owns also have a nice rounded edge what makes it easy to start them.

Tight fitting plugs are needed for first class varnish work. There's no way to avoid the tell tale ring the plug makes. That's why the tighter they are the better they disappear. Any glue you use will feature the ring. Like Mike sez, on bright-work you have to line up the grain of the plug and plank, and you must use varnish when you put them in. You are 'sealing' the wood and the screw.

Thus in new work a screw that is driven home tight in a 'properly countersinked' hole (the Fuller's have removable collars that show the optimum depth for the plug) the plug will mate exactly in the hole and set tight.

Old work, where the plug has been dug out - you could not do this if the plug had been glued in!!! - there is the problemish. One way is to ignore the countersink and go with a larger screw size. Leaving the flat head exposed, flat with the surface, imco doesn't look all that bad on the coamings. Another solution MAY be to use donut washers to cover the hole and feature the round head screws as expensive jewelry. If done right it doesn't protrude much, 1/16"(?)

In absence of a slick, a couple of commoner-garden Stanley chisels will do. Mike's method uses chisel width to keep you from gouging the plank as you very well can do with a narrow blade. A no slick method might be to use your widest chisel, chamfer side down on the plank but canted UP a bit off the surface so that when you knock the plug excess off you leave some still there.

With the chisel resting on the work - you hit the plug slightly UP, not level. This is because the grain on the plug may not be parallel and some of the plug in the hole might get knocked out with the waste from below the surface. Then you carefully pare down the remainder very carefully with a sharp narrow blade. Paring from the LOW side to the high side you can get it very flat and true. Sanding is counterproductive on wood you have already gone thru the numbers or varnished. Fix the no flats when sanding the first layers of arnish.

If you are stuck with a larger hole than the plug you have, and haven't got any more time to fiddle, you might put a dot of 5minute epoxy on the bottom of the plug and hope that holds it. The assumption here is that the regular 5minit stuff is very brittle and next time an awl would be used to pry the glue out of the screw head slot, good luck. Don't glue the whole plug in, remember the next guy may be you!

[commanderpete]

You guys are really going to countersink and plug those screws? I don't get it.

I used bronze screws from Jamestown and brass washers. Let them darken a bit and varnish right over them. Kind of blend in.

Stainless looks fine too I think. This is a pic of Sirocco with stainless

[Mike Goodwin]

I didn't say I was going to do it that way! If you were paying me to I would!
That is just the traditional way of doing it. Hell I might just use drywall screws and let 'em countersink themselves.
On those thin coamings I like the trim washer , just watch out in the summer when those buggers get hot!

[ebb]

Befor the coamings came off 338 the flush exposed screwheads were fairly unnoticable. They were #12 flathead bronze with some coats of Cetol. Bronze with varnish would over time disappear too, I think.

While the coamings were a full 3/4", I have seen thin coamings recently. Considering that the screws lag or clamp the wood in place it would be better they NOT be countersunk in thinner stock because there wouldn't be much wood in the screw hole holding the coamings.

Sirocco's cockpit looks great. And is in keeping with the style of fastening everywhere else on the boat.

[willie]

Sir Mike, I am humbled that you replied to my question. I remember looking at that website, link somewhere on here???--Anyway, from the master himself!
Bung master? humm, somehow that doesn't quite sound right! I am in awe of the work you do. No words for it.

The proceedure sounds pretty scary to me, after all the work varnishing!
I have flat headed stainless stovebolts? is that the proper term? anyway, they're sunk in a bit, the boards aren't too awfully thin. I'll get some pictures tomorrow.

I was thinking the same thing about running them across the belt sander. Might have a few raw fingers!

I'd really like to take a look at that schooner again. How about posting the link, again? Thanks, your humble servant,

[Mike Goodwin]

You can get to the website ;

http//.schoonervirginia.com/

If you have the original coamings I bet they are under 3/4" now .

Yeah "Bung -Master" , after my favorite character in the Wizard of Id , I prefer bung master over 'Lord Of the Bungs', the moniker my apprentice was given.

[commanderpete]

Sweet lines.

Did ebb build the rudder?

[ebb]

Lookit that, rudder don't go up to the hull. It's gonna vortex and spoil her speed for sure!

[Mike Goodwin]

Gives you a better idea of scale, picture taken about 3 hours before the above shot. Me in red shirt.

[Mike Goodwin]

Constructed just like our rudder but bigger, the bronze shaft weighs nearly 800lbs!
I can't find Ebb in these photos!

[willie]

Mike, thanks so much. I am even more humbled. And without words. You must feel very proud. Are you still involved with the project--rigging, fitting out? To think that a guy with your experience is an Ariel sailor, well, here's to you! Says a lot for our little yacht!

I took some photos of my coamings, and my custom covers before going for an awesome sail this morning. It had to be the most perfect outing yet. About 70 degrees, 15 knots, a few gusts to 20 to keep me awake, and just beautiful. I was trying to see if i could tell any difference in performance with the Nissan 5 hp 2 stroke long shaft. Admiral's idea. (And it will be good for locking through the dams.) Other than that, don't see much need for it. Anyway, i don't have a speedo, so couldn't tell much difference actually. If anything, she seems more stable on a downwind run. Didn't hobby horse around like usual. And that could have been my imigination, or different conditions too. She still seems to sail great with it in the water, so maybe she'll forgive me for opening up the well. Hope so. She sure sails great.
So what's this thread? lol Kinda wandering all over the place here. Sorry all.
Anyway, here's a few pictures of the coamings, and my little puney stern. Puney and pretty! Even with the outboard. ugh

Oh yeah, the exterior wood. I can't decide what to do with the bolt heads. I think i'll just leave em exposed. They're only counter sunk about 1/8". Didn't measure the coaming thickness, i'm guessing 5/8 to 3/4. Now i got all the rest to do! I like sailing better than varnishing though, so might get done, might not! Working on a sound system now, i gotta have some tunes out there, especially when i'm all alone!

Thanks again for the link and pics. That is so awesome! IF i ever get back that way....

[Mike Goodwin]

Thanks for the kudos !

Nice looking boat you have , covers for the coamings wow!
Is that a lake you are sailing on? 70 degrees and 15 to 20 and you are way up north, we had snow 40 to 50 and the mid 20's and this is supposed to be the south .


Why dont you fill the holes with a brown caulk? 1/8" is very shallow to bung , I like a 1/4" at least . From 10' away nobody will notice .

After 2 years with the schooner , I'm semi-retired again . Had a fall from some scaffolding in Nov and my knee is still healing ( I hope! ) .
Working on a top secret boatbuilding project for the city right now .