RUDDER SHOE DISCUSSIONS

[Bill]

Although "35" is not noted in the reference to "Alberg" in the drawing, I'm pretty sure that Pearson only produced the 35. I believe the 30 was produced by Whitby Boatworks in Ontario.

But, more important is the difference in the angle of the machined surface of the shoe into which the rudder shaft is inserted. For the Ariel and Vanguard, it is 40 degrees. For the Alberg, it is 35 degrees. Consequently, a shoe produced for an Ariel would NOT be proper for an Alberg -- of course, one possibly could machine the surface angle to 35 degrees without messing up the shoe fit.

[ebb]

I punched >aberg 35 rudder shoe< into google.
Went to 'images' where pearsonariel.org thumbnails from various threads from the discussion pages are evident. Nothing here obviously on the Alberg 35.
however....
On this first page of thumbnai are three labeled
alberg 35 gallery spot (46 240X180 -23K -jpg.
web site is
fiveprime.org
The other two thumbnails are 'Cockpit hole' and 'primed cockpit'

When you cursor the pic you get three disorganized pages of Flickr photos.
No text of any sort I can find.
But you can locate 5 or six RUDDER SHOE photos
and a rebuild of the keel heel.
Looks like it could be one of our boats, same shoe, same problem. But same size"? That is not known.
another way in to the same photos: google> My Sailboat Project - a set on flickr

To my knowledge this is the only online photo collection of an Alberg 35 restoration.
And the only photos of the rudder shoe/keel restoration.
There is a rudimentary A35.org site.
There may be plans available (with measured drawings?) at the Peabody Essex Museum in Salem, MA.

[Chance]

Bill,
Can you provide me Fred's updated contact info, including phone and email? I'm referring to post #31 and of the nicely finished (machined) shoe he has created.
Looking to purchase one for Ceili.

Thank you,
Chance

[Bill]

Chance:

Here is the last contact we had for Fred. Unfortunately, he has not responded in several years. It could be that he's moved, or something worse.

frecarzoee@harbornet.com

FRED POMERANZ
1168 QUEETS DR.
FOX ISLAND, WA 98333

BTW - The drawing of the shoe in the manual can be used to cast a shoe. That's how Fred did it.

As noted elsewhere, this shoe fits Commanders, Ariels, Vanguards, Coasters (which all use 35 deg pitch where the shaft sits) and Albergs (which uses a 40 deg pitch where the shaft sits) [see drawing]

[carl291]

Chance Happy New Year! The kind of work you do you should think about making a plug to make one out of Kelvar and Epoxy with a bronze bushing inserted. Carl

[Tony G]

I would like to see some design ideas for a composite shoe/shaft option for our boats. I know there is a great deal of strength in resin and fabric but how well do you think it would hold up to occational grounding even if only on sand and mud? Maybe if the shoe was beefed up by increasing the height thickness such that the point where the shaft inserts into the shoe is 5-6 inches above the 'heel' of the keel for lack of the proper term. Would all of this lead to a reshaped rudder? Maybe bring back the constellation rudder Ebb was working on circa 2003?

[Chance]

Bill,
Mr. Fred Pomeranz's new email address is: frecarzoee@comcast.net. His mailing address is still the same as above. It was a pleasure meeting him over the phone and we had a great conversation. Looks like "Ceili" (Commander #256) will get a new shoe to match her new rudder that I am building.

[Chance]

Carl,
Thank you, but...I'll stick with a bronze alloy. Actually I have an update for all:

I just got off the phone this evening with Mr. Fred Pomeranz and we had a very nice conversation. In short, he knows I'm interested in replacing the shoe on "Ceili" and is checking on alloy availability and an updated cost total (to reflect the casting and machine work).

My alloy of choice is Silicone Bronze 655 (Copper Alloy Number 655 - Wrought High Silicon Bronze A Everdur).

The new rudder shaft is of the same alloy listed above and I have obtained that through the company Atlas Bronze in NJ.

[Chance]

Just want to let those who may be interested:

New silicon bronze (Herculoy) rudder shoe

Cost: $325.00 (includes machine work)

This is fast moving. Foundry will have the pattern first part of this coming week, and is scheduled for casting.

If you desire to purchase one, your intentions and commitment to purchase is needed this weekend.

Thanks

[Chance]

Here's Ceili's new rudder shoe, tiller head strap / cap assembly and associated 655 silicon bronze shaft and other items waiting in my garage for the next phase.

[Ed Ekers]

I think we will be adding a new rudder shoe to our Ariel on our next haul out (soon). Looking for any leads on who might still be available to make one. Better yet would someone might have an extra just lying around. Whatever info you can share I would appreciate…..thanks…….ed (Pathfinder #77)

[Bill]

Ed, Fred (as noted above) is the best source, if he's still around. Bristol Bronze, as I recall, may have also produced a rudder shoe, but it did not appear to be as well machined. At the present cost of metals, whomever you find is likely to be more inexpensive than the $325 Chance Smith paid.

You might want to check with "kendall" in the off topic forum. He recently scrapped an Ariel and may still have the shoe:

http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussi...m-and-sails-FS.

FRED POMERANZ
1168 QUEETS DR.
FOX ISLAND, WA 98333
frecarzoee@comcast.net

[ebb]

Howsitgoin Ed,
When mine came off it was because it was pretty eaten up
- somehow - by reacting with the stainless or monel alloy shaft that was used for the fiberglass DFO rudder on A338.
Or maybe because it wasn't silicon bronze.
The fitting had extra bolts drilled thru the sides and the remains of zinc wires under the nuts.
The fiberglass heel inside was a crumbly mess, requiring a serious rebuild.

One of the thinner sides of the shoe was bent from being bolted rather than pinned to the boat, and if I remember the heel of the shoe was pitted & corroded.

Used Bondo to build up the sides. Sides are spec 5/16" along the top. But the body is more rounded fair, I guess, since my original was in bad shape.
Then I took it to Richmond and had California Casting make one in S.B. using it as the mold.


Just found & took a look at it. Still has silvery mold release on it from the time it was used to make the sand mold.
Looks smooth, edges sharp.. Did not change the interior shape or dimension. Inside looks original.

The 3/4" hole for the rudder shaft has to be drilled in the flat at a precise center.
Manual pg 171 has a drawing of an "Alberg-Ariel-Vanguard-Coaster Rudder Shoe." Mold is very close to those lines.
Flat in drawing is stated to be 35degrees from the line of the top of the shoe - for the Ariel.
Drawing measure across the widest part of angled flat that ithe hole for the rudder shaft is drilled in ....sez 2 1//6".
My mold with unaltered sides (except for fattening lower sides and 'sole' of the Shoe, measures 2 3/16" across the "machined flat".
Don't believe machining is necessary to get the angle correct, a file can get the flat shiney.
Mold is slightly longer than Manual at 11.5" and slightly wider at 3.25". Allowing for shrinkage, should cast pretty much like original.
Sides have to be drilled for copper pins as well, but that is a good thing because you can put them where you want 'em.

Think I had the piece cleaned up at the shop after casting but not buffed, which made it less expensive.
Remember thinking it was very reasonable, and cleanly cast.

The "mold" is as heavy as the real thing, 6lbs, since the real thing is inside.

Use it of course.
You might want to see it first.
I'm in SantaCruz usually around some holiday, can bring it down.
UPS?

[carl291]

Ed, I have one for sale that needs all machine work done, I'll let it go for $100.00 plus shipping, I thought I would keep it for a spare. but I won't be needing it. Carl

[Ed Ekers]

Hi Carl, I sent a private message