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Thread: RUDDER SHOE DISCUSSIONS

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
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    Olalla, WA
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    RUDDER SHOE DISCUSSIONS

    Does anyone happen to have the exact measurement from the top edge to the bottom of the rudder shoe? The specs were either omitted or did not copy on to the rudder shoe drawing in my manual. From the drawing I come up with a measurement just under 3 3/4 inches but would be happier if someone could remove the uncertainty. I've encountered a semi retired tool and die maker who has access to a foundry and all the necessary tools and is interested in casting one for me as an interesting project. If there is any interest from other Ariel owners, I could approach him about making more. (for a fee, I'm sure).
    Thanks,
    Tom
    Furthur #332

  2. #2
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    Sep 2001
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    San Rafael, CA
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    Back when, I made up a model of the fitting (using the one from 338) to the specs in the Manual and sent it off to Bristol. I got the new casting back and it turned out it was much wider that what Pearson had put there. Not that I couldn't have figured it out befor...

    Because I had taken the moth-eaten original, bent the sides back out. They were bent in, I thought, by bolts, and bondoed the corrosion smooth. It was corroded on the side of the zinc. Anyway I assumed too much.

    Ended up I had a bit of fairing to do on the keel.

    Anyway, it says on the specs in the Manual the rudder shoe was for the Coaster and the Vanguard as well. Somehow, the original fitting on 338 had narrower scantlings. It wasn't all the fault of corrosion. You might want to get some owners to caliper the shoe befor you go into production. It just might be possible the shoe (on 338) came from one of the other Alberg.

    What an assumption that would be:
    That all Albergs have the same keel angle!!!

  3. #3
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    Apr 2003
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    Bellingham, Wa.
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    I want one!

    Actually, our friend who is setting about to refit Triton 549 does, too!

    Any luck?

    Thanks,
    Dave

  4. #4
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    Olalla, WA
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    I'll know more in a few days. The guy who has the technology is looking at the drawings and deciding how he wants to proceed and what would make it worthwhile. Next time I talk to him I'll see how he feels about doing a small production run. I think eventually someone would buy them all. Will post more info as it becomes available.

    Tom

  5. #5
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    The latest on rudder shoes. Talked to the tool maker who is going to build a mold to manual specifications for me and either pour it himself or arrange to have it poured, depending on whether I use manganese or silicon bronze. He has easy access to one (silicone) but not the other but does know an area foundry that pours a lot of manganese that will do it for me, if I choose manganese. (probably)
    The bad news is that he isn't interested in setting up to do a production run, although he might be persuaded at a later date if there is sufficient demand to make it worth his while. Multiple use molds are considerably more involved and he just wants to a small project to keep him out of the rain. What I can do is make a plaster mold(s) of the new rudder shoe when it arrives and send those to whoever wants one so they can take it to their local foundry or I could possibly arrange to have castings made from the plaster molds at the same place mine gets done.

  6. #6
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    Oct 2001
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    Olalla, WA
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    rudder shoe update

    My mold maker has finished the pattern he made to exact scale of the drawings and is taking it to the foundry for casting this week. It turns out he's a master craftsman and the pattern is almost a thing of beauty. (see pics) He has also indicated that he is now interested in keeping the pattern so he can get more castings made for anyone who wants one. Will know total price in a few days. Anyone interested, let me know. He might also be persuaded to make molds for just about any other bronze part that drawings exist for.
    Attached Images  

  7. #7
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    another pic
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  8. #8
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    Apr 2003
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    WoW!

    Hoover and I are nearly ready to go on castings, too...but I have to say that that is a wonderful plug.

    The patternmaker's is a near- lost art anymore, and that's a shame. Look at any cast-metal part from days of old (like the underside of the table on your Delta Unisaw or similar) and think...someone carved that out of incredibly hi-grade honduras mahogany once.

    I had a fellow worked in my instrument shop who had worked in patterns at Boeing in the early '60's...and he was a consummate craftsman. These guys are true treasures, true artisans, and a (unfortunately but truly) dying breed. Soak up everything you can from a guy like this, needless to say! Wow.

    Nice pattern plug! Please pass my compliments to the patternmaker if the chance arises if you would.

    Best,
    Dave

  9. #9
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    Feb 2003
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    Central Illinois, 9 mi. South of Decatur
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    tcoolidge,
    I had discussed the shoe casting with Bill Hoover in the past. Your pics. and the plug are really great.
    I do wish to express interest in also having one cast for us! I as you would like to have an idea of cost when you find out. The timing is perfect since I'm presently doing the rudder which I'll install this fall following this sailing season.
    Thanks so much for you guys leg work!
    Jim

  10. #10
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    Olalla, WA
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    Will see if he can get two cast when I next talk to him. He might be planning on doing that anyhow. I'll keep you, and anyone else who is interested posted.


    Tom

  11. #11
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    Sep 2001
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    Santa Cruz, California
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    Tom,

    Please keep me posted on the cost of the casting. I may be interested in purchasing one. I do not appear to be in immediate need, but it would be a shame not to add to my collection of useful bronze goodies for the underbelly of my forty year old friend, Augustine.
    Scott

  12. #12
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    Olalla, WA
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    Got a message the shoe was cast today but he didn't say how much the foundry cost. Will pick it up Monday and know then and will post it as soon as I know.

    Tom

  13. #13
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    Oct 2001
    Location
    Olalla, WA
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    ruddershoe update part II

    It's here. Pics attached.
    Rough shoe (as is) $175.00. No mounting holes, no rudder shaft hole, ruddershaft bearing surface not hardened and polished. Take it to the machine shop of your choice for finish work. OR if I can find 4-5 people who are interested in a finished shoe, he will (and can) do the finish machining as well. He says building the jig to hold the shoe for drilling the ruddershaft hole is something of a pain and it's not worth it to him to do for one or two shoes but if there are a few people interested he will tool up. Estimated cost for a finished shoe is $250.00.
    He cast two shoes in manganese bronze. We went with manganese because it is considerably harder and stronger than naval or silicon bronze but he can arrange casting in whatever alloy you might want.
    Anyone interested, let me know.
    Tom
    Attached Images  

  14. #14
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    another view
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  15. #15
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    Orinda, California
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    I need one of those just to put on the mantel for everyone to see!

    Seriously, I think one of the "finished" ones is what I should have. How is this going to work?

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