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Thread: rudder discussions

  1. #436
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Forsyth GA
    Posts
    396
    Hi, I think for a feathering prop to fit that would be quite a large "bit" of opening up on the rudder. If you should decide to go this route, I have a feathering prop that I could offer you for a large savings, it's off a 30 ft Catalina. (A4 engine)

  2. #437
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    127
    I may me interested. I have a line on a 3 blade Gori. What brand and model do you have?

  3. #438
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Grand Haven / Muskegon, Michigan
    Posts
    599
    Re my Gallery post, I'm trying to find a recent rudder build pictured on the forum somewhere. It isn't in this thread. It had long bronze L's welded to the shaft. May have been two pieces of mahogany sandwiched together. Maybe you've seen it? My dull brain needs step by step instructions with pictures that goes beyond what is in the manual!

  4. #439
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Santa Cruz, California
    Posts
    454

    New Ariel #330 Rudder 2018

    During a haul out in late July 2018, we discovered that the mahogany rudder blade on my Pearson Ariel was eroded due to alkaline conditions produced by the rudder zinc that had been installed on the rudder. The zinc was in very good condition after more than a full year in the water. The copper strap connecting zinc to the rudder bolt within the body of the rudder blade had been broken (likely due to metal fatigue incurred when a diver was cleaning the rudder blade while installing a new zinc). We considered repairing the rudder blade with epoxy, but upon examining the upper bronze rudder shaft, we decided to replace the rudder. The bronze rudder shaft was badly eroded in the vicinity of the top rudder blade bolt. Since other Ariel rudders have failed in this same location, and in light of the evident corrosion, we decided to replace the rudder.

    The rudder was removed on August 1, 2018 in the slings just before the boat was splashed. The rear part of the keel was cleaned with scraping tools and sand paper to clean it and open it up in preparation for the new fiberglass over wood rudder, which was to be constructed of a wood and fiberglass using a stainless steel shaft and blade support structure.

    While waiting for the new custom professionally built rudder, I repaired the decks repairs a few gelcoat gouges, and resurfaced the non-skid areas using Interlux Brightside one-part polyurethane.

    We hauled the boat again on September 26, 2018. The boat remained in slings while the new rudder was fitted to the keel. The new rudder was built on a shaft made by
    of 304 tight tolerance stainless steel rod welded to 1/2 inch all-thread stainless steel rods that run through and support the rudder blade.

    The rudder blade was built of Kiln Dried Douglas Fir 2X6 and 2X4 boards secured to the shaft by nuts secured to the 1/2 inch all-thread stainless steel rods. The kiln dried fir boards that compose the rudder core were glued together with and all voids were filled with West Systems Epoxy. The boards were then shaped by sanding to an improved more aerodynamic shape with a larger blade that tapers to the trailing edge as shown in the attached photos. The last 1/2 inch of the trailing edge was built of epoxy resin. The rudder, including the stainless steel shaft where it abutted the rudder blade, was then wrapped with 6 oz fiberglass cloth saturated with E West Systems epoxy, sanded to fair and then coated with Interlux 2000 Barrier Coat. The stainless steel shaft was wrapped with one layer of cloth. Two layers of cloth were applied to the rudder blade. Finally, while the second barrier coat layer was still wet, Petit Trinidad bottom paint was applied. This layer was followed by two additional layers of Petit Trinidad.

    The rudder was installed in the slings. The original bronze rudder shaft was bent, and the shaft had wobbled about in the rudder tube until the bushing was set into & tiller head in its place at the top rim of the rudder tube. A shim as used with the old bronze shaft. The new stainless steel rudder shaft is straight. When installed, it initially pressed hard against the aft rim of the rudder tube. The bushing was installed around the new rudder shaft by manually pulling the top the shaft forward, inserting the bushing, and then tapping it down into position using a wood block driven by plastic mallet. No shim is required with the new shaft.

    The new rudder was tested on the day of installation by sailing a distance of approximately 10 nm in winds ranging from five to fifteen knots with seas of approximately two feet. The rudder performed well. Top speed was over 7 knots. Speeds of 6 knots were sustained while beating and close reaching based on GPS speed with 10 to 15 knots of wind.

    The dotted line on the photo below of the rudder (shown before application of fiberglass) is an outline of the old (original) rudder profile. The new rudder is shown in other photos after application of fiberglass, after application of Interlux 2000 Barrier Coat, after application Petit Trinidad bottom paint, and as mounted on the boat in the slings just before splashing the boat. Additional photos of the old rudder are include din the follow-up post.
    Attached Images          
    Last edited by Scott Galloway; 10-31-2018 at 05:20 PM.
    Scott

  5. #440
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Santa Cruz, California
    Posts
    454

    Two more photos

    The photos below show the old damaged rudder blade in the area of the rudder zinc and the old rudder in 2004 during a previous haul out.
    Attached Images    
    Scott

  6. #441
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    127
    How is your weather helm? Did it increase with the added surface area of the new rudder?

  7. #442
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    127
    Looks great by the way!

  8. #443
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Santa Cruz, California
    Posts
    454
    Question asked: "How is your weather helm? Did it increase with the added surface area of the new rudder?"

    My Answer: The profile (surface area) of the rudder is larger. The leading edge of the rudder is necessarily the same width due to the shaft width, but the rudder tapers to the trailing edge, as can be seen in some of the photos in my earlier post. The final 1/2 inch of the trailing edge is epoxy. If you look closely at the photo of the fir rudder blade that was taken prior to the application of fiberglass, you will see a dashed black line. That line shows the profile of the original rudder. The line should help you visualize the areas where the profile of the rudder was enlarged.

    Yes, the weather helm has been reduced as a result of the new design. While at sea if I am sailing alone, I generally use sheet-to-tiller self steering system to steer the boat, so that I am free to handle the sails, navigate and serve as look-out. I am still tweaking the settings on that system to adjust for the decreased pressure on the new rudder due to the reduction in weather helm. As far the boat speed goes, my Ariel seems to be running faster to weather. This would be expected due to an improved, more aerodynamic rudder design.

    Below is a photo of the old rudder taken during my recent haul-out in July showing damage to the mahogany rudder blade due to erosion resulting from alkaline conditions produced by the rudder zinc that had been installed on the rudder. Whether this damage was accelerated by the broken copper strap that once connected that zinc to one of the bolts tying the rudder blade to the shaft, I do not know, but I suspect from my research on this topic that placing a zinc on a wood rudder is not a good idea regardless of whether or not that zinc is connected to the bronze or steel rudder support structure.
    Attached Images  
    Scott

  9. #444
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Cleveland, Ohio on Lake Erie
    Posts
    1
    Scott, You mentioned in your October 31, 2018 post that you purchased a new custom professionally built rudder for your Ariel. Can you tell me who/where you purchased it from? Joe Starck (Commander Hull #43)

  10. #445
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Santa Cruz, California
    Posts
    454
    Quote Originally Posted by Commander43 View Post
    Scott, You mentioned in your October 31, 2018 post that you purchased a new custom professionally built rudder for your Ariel. Can you tell me who/where you purchased it from? Joe Starck (Commander Hull #43)
    Joe,

    Sorry for the delay. I missed you post earlier. My new rudder was custom designed and built for my boat by Lighthall Marine on Santa Cruz, CA.
    Scott

  11. #446
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Chicago IL
    Posts
    3

    Fiberglass over wood rudder pros & cons

    I purchased Commander #274 (Old Glory) 2 days ago after having a thorough marine survey conducted. The rudder has a fiberglass layer over the wood core. The fiberglass layer is visibly damaged and the wood exposed. Looks like she struck something at the bottom of Lake Michigan. In any case, after reading every post on this thread today and exchanging comments with an Ariel owner at the same yard, I’m torn on whether to simply remove the glass and refinish the wood underneath (ok, I choose to be an optimist here) or replace the fiberglass layer after drying/refinishing the wood core. Everything I’ve read, including Don Casey’s book on sailboat repair suggests a wet rudder of wood in the water provides better “neutral buoyancy” than one covered with fiberglass and thus improves performance. But the same sources suggest wet wood is an invitation to problems. So what to do? Our sailing season is seven months and the boat will be in a cradle in indoor heated storage during the cold months.

  12. #447
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Location
    Brighton, Michigan
    Posts
    1
    Hi, I cannot offer guidance, I recently purchased a Triton with what appears to be the original wooden rudder in pretty decent shape. I'm trying to determine if glassing over would add strength and overall life, or whether to simply splash it and let the wood swell with the water and use it for the season. Will be interested to what people suggest.

  13. #448
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Rafael, CA
    Posts
    3,559
    Hi, I'm a member of 'The Alberg Design Fleet of San Francisco', which is essentially the former
    Triton fleet of San Francisco Bay. You may find us on the internet. And you might find a way
    to contact one or all of the active members. The Triton rudder hangs on two gudgeons, and is
    toptally different than the A/C rudder. Some of the Triton rudders have had to be completely
    rebuilt. But I think you will find, if yours is in great shape, is to do as you say "splash it and let
    the wood swell".
    I hope you can find a Triton owner who will advise you. Good luck.
    Last edited by ebb; 05-28-2020 at 01:32 PM.

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